Spiderweb Software - Ceasing IOS Development

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Forum member Xian sent me a link with interesting information that Spiderweb Software has canceled Avernum 2: Crystal Souls for iPad, and ceased all future iPad Development.

According to a post on the official Spiderweb forums, iOS 8.3, the latest version of Apple's software which launched while Avernum 2: Crystal Souls was in submission, seriously breaks the game. Once the issue was discovered Spiderweb pulled the game from sale, but it appears that the game-breaking issues run deeper than first thought. So Spiderweb has decided to cancel the release of Crystal Souls on iPad altogether. In another post on their forums, Spiderweb goes into the reasons they will no longer be developing for iPad going forward. In short, the games just don't make enough money to justify it.
More information.
 
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Interesting! If I recall correctly they said the games sell well on tablets. Maybe it's just the IPad that's worse? In some interview Jeff even said he prefers to play the games on tablets...
 
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A small victory.
In short, the games just don't make enough money to justify it.
Yup. You can't sell anything on phones that isn't yet another virtual beggar. The audience gets overwhelmed if the product is different.
 
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Interesting! If I recall correctly they said the games sell well on tablets. Maybe it's just the IPad that's worse? In some interview Jeff even said he prefers to play the games on tablets…

Um ... in terms of game sales, tablets = iPad. Android is a no-money platform, much worse than iOS. That isn't even a debate point.

And it is also interesting to hear that the key things he said 'broke' the game ... aren't true. He talks about a couple of system calls which were deprecated ... which means that they are no longer 'safe' for future versions, but they were neither changed nor removed.

I have no idea what happened to the game, but while Joxer cheers, this is NOT really a good thing. Mobile games are a HUGE source of revenue and therefore get loads of attention and developer time. That games like these don't sell enough even for Jeff to see it as worthwhile anymore means fewer people exposed to our types of gaming, which will lead to LESS interest, not more, in 'real' games on real computers.

Either way, interesting how he chose to handle this.
 
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I'll just post his three major reasons why he stopped iPad development.
After several years of good time, we at Spiderweb have come to the sad conclusion that we can no longer develop new games for the iPad. The iPad titles currently on iTunes will still be available as long as we are able to support them. As soon as Apple makes changes that makes it impossible to support them, they will be removed.

There are a few reasons for this decision.

1. Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. As a result, sales for our games has dropped massively and the cost of advertising them has shot through the roof.

2. Changes in iOS 8.3 completely broke the engine we have been using for the last several years. To continue development would requiring licensing and learning a whole new engine, and the low potential earnings just doesn't make it worthwhile.

3. Honestly, the complexity of every single thing we do has shot up in the last few years. My brain no longer has the time and energy to deal with Apple forcing me to relearn how to program every few years. This is, of course, my failing.

We know a lot of fans will be disappointed in this decision. Believe me, we're really unhappy about it. And this may not be permanent. In a few years, we can look at the marketplace and the technical requirements and rethink things. For now, though, this is the only decision that makes sense, and we apologize to the fans we've disappointed.
 
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I'll just post his three major reasons why he stopped iPad development.

Yeah, I read the statement after my first post. Makes perfect sense business-wise, but is sad for the variety of games you can choose from. Seems tablets remain F2P casual psycho-tricks games country. Sucks how Apple force their monopoly even if it hurts devs.

I love the Spiderweb games, but only play them on my PC, so for me not much changes.
 
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The problem I have is that while I have no doubt that *something* broke in Av2 with the release of iOS 8.3 ... his explanation has been debunked already, what he claims are the reasons are NOT true. He claims things that are simply false - that doesn't mean that his game didn't break, but it makes his claims of blaming Apple less trustworthy.

For me I see it all about money ... which I DO fully support - and think is sad. Even as Apple has carved out a 'pay once' space for paid games and given them loads of promotion ... two things remain true: (1) F2P remains king, and the billions made through those make changes unlikely and (2) getting noticed is harder than ever. Those F2P games in the Super Bowl had $5 million spots! With all of them having >$20 million advertising budgets for this year ... for a 'free' game.
 
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Hmm, being a pro mobile developer, I mostly agree with Jeff:
- an indie simply cannot make money on mobiles, because the market saturation is enormous (about 400 games published PER DAY)
- indie successes are very rare compared to the number of games available (Candy Crush? how old is that game?)
- certain successful indie games are not indie at all (Monument Valley, etc development are backed by a bigger company)

...and most importantly, based on my own personal experience:
The mobile platform is absolutely not the best market for a hardcore rpg.
Try as you might, you will never succeed.

What I do NOT agree with Jeff: the technical problems he mentioned are trivial and the workaround is simple. I guess the main reason to abandon iOS is a financial one, and not a technical problem.
 
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What is disappointing to me is that the Spiderweb games on the iPad were some of the very few games on the entire platform that appeal to me. Most of the IOS games I have seen have been pretty shallow experiences, but then if you can't make money on the platform why spend a lot of time and effort on them? Spiderweb games have always appealed to a niche audience, and that would even be a smaller subset on a tablet. .
 
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This is simply a reality of the market, everything mobile is a bottomless race to the bottom.

He should never have done it and only focused on his fans who are actually ready to pay more money to buy his games.
 
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I can definitely see his side and it's very valid. Why would you want to deal with catering to Apple's changes if all you're selling is maybe one or two copies every few days on that inundated platform. It's a better use of one's time to simply work on a new project or, hell, going to the park!

The guy's been doing this for 20 years, long before the advent of people burying their head in the latest trending topic. He's obviously content with where he's at, so why would he bend over backwards and waste his time doing something that grates him for practically no reward?
 
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Two things (and then maybe I'll shut up):

1. I get - and totally agree with - the market discussion. If you look at his comments after Avadon 2 it was clear that his game sales had plummeted on iPad after early success. OK ... so WHY the untrue and disingenuous technical blaming of Apple?

I am not saying that there weren't things in iOS that impacted the game, but he talks about depracated functions - there were none in iOS 8.3. That was simply not true. I have sympathy for the financial implications, but when you try to blame it all on someone else ... ? Um, no.

2. I will just say that the preview version of Avernum 2 was in the worst shape of any of his games since his very first release for iPad. I have gotten used to his earliest builds being nearly release-ready on iPad - all of the core bugs worked out, and just tweaking on iOS. And I am not talking about beta testing - I get preview TestFlight releases for press preview purposes. But this time, there were more issues from the start, including .... wait for it ... "problems registering touches on certain parts of the screen". Sound familiar? It should, because it is what he called the 'game breaking bug' that came from iOS 8.3. Sounds to me like whatever he did to patch the initial problem was unsupported and therefore broken when the hole was closed. Not exactly sure ...
 
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OK ... I won't edit what I wrote, but I also want to counter myself by saying:
1. His reasons are his own, without need to justify

2. The other reasons (income, work, and stress of chasing the fast-moving mobile world) are DEFINITELY more than enough to justify his move.

3. Ultimately as a fan of his stuff, with the Mac/PC as my preferred gaming platform ... what I want is for him to focus on doing what he loves so I get more games ... rather than playing Sisyphus against the hill of iOS development!
 
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There's really nothing about mobile gaming that interests me. But I'm glad it's there for people who like it.
 
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Two things (and then maybe I'll shut up):
I am not saying that there weren't things in iOS that impacted the game, but he talks about depracated functions - there were none in iOS 8.3. That was simply not true.

As a fellow programmer, I have to say, I understand his frustrations: Apple has a tendency to change *something* now and then, that makes your app unstable/buggy/unusable/etc.

This is very annoying, since you must babysit ALL your previous releases and should dust down long forgotten code, debug it and apply a fix (scavenged by lame-ass tech documentations)

If your game earns you sh*tloads of cash, then you'll do it. If your game is just sitting there, earning nothing, you'll feel like a frustrated digital Sisyphus ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus ).
 
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Guess it's similar to Mac games, where older games will not run if you have a newer OS.

While it's sad to hear that one source of income is gone for them, it's also good news for PC/Mac users.
1. Less time spent on stuff we don't profit from, meaning more time (or less waiting time) for new releases.
2. Maybe the interface gets overhauled. Because that one was horrible for PC either but you could see several "joint" points to make it easier for tablets. E.g. the missing utilization of additional mouse buttons.
 
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To be honest if they stopped development on all platforms I wouldn't notice. I've never been able to get in to spiderweb games despite several attempts. Now I just ignore them.

I feel the same way about mobile gaming, I have several games and I can't seem to get into any of them. Even shadowrun, BG and xcom. All games I really enjoyed on PC. Xcom was by far the best mobile experience but I just don't like gaming on mobile platforms.
 
I can't tell you how sad this makes me. I played Avernum 6 and Escape from the Pit on iPad and was so looking forward to this. I am a lot less likely to play this game now because the competition it faces on my macbook is too big (ie. Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, etc.) On my ipad though, there are not many games I like.
 
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Honestly, the complexity of every single thing we do has shot up in the last few years. My brain no longer has the time and energy to deal with Apple forcing me to relearn how to program every few years. This is, of course, my failing.

I don't think that's his failing, its Apple's failing. I understand that you can't always have legacy support for everything, but Apple is infamous for their don't give a shit attitude in terms of legacy support. I remember when they went full 64-bit on their OS and basically didn't include any support at all for older programs. It was just 'tough shit, but a new version.' They get away with it because the people that are Apple fans accept it. Someday, that won't be the case. Their inflexibility nearly sunk them in the 90's, it will do so again.

That said, Vogel has many times made pretty definitive statements about what he will and won't do and then changed his mind not far off. The one that sticks out was selling his games, even the old ones, below their premiumish prices. Some marketer convinced him he was leaving a lot of money on the table and he figured out they were right. To his credit, he addressed the change in attitude directly.

So, if it looks like iOS is going to be necessary to the future of his company, I expect that he'll change his decision. Whatever else he may be, he's ultimately a pretty good businessman.
 
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2. Maybe the interface gets overhauled. Because that one was horrible for PC either but you could see several "joint" points to make it easier for tablets. E.g. the missing utilization of additional mouse buttons.

That indeed was infuriating!
 
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