Steam - About Those Paid Mods

Myrthos

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Kotaku has interviewed Valve's Erik Johnson and Robin Walker about their ideas to start with paid mods again, even after their unsuccesful attempt earlier this year.

“We screwed things up in the details,” Johnson noted. When I suggested that perhaps they could’ve tested the waters with some survey-type forum threads on Steam or Reddit—slowly warmed people up to the idea instead of springing it on them cold—Johnson added, “I agree that we could’ve done it a lot better.”

For Skyrim in particular—with its vast, established modding community, rife with room for drama over attribution, combo mods, etc—Johnson feels like Valve also miscommunicated why they chose to do what they did. “If you look back specifically at the Skyrim situation,” he said, “while it wasn’t our intent, it was really easy to read that as, ‘Remember that thing you love? You pay money for that now.’ That’s an awful plan. That’s a terrible plan.”

“I think the magnitude of the reaction was also like, ‘Did Valve just turn evil on us?’” Johnson continued. “We don’t think we did, but we can see how it got miscommunicated that way. I know Robin will say this too, but it was one of the most awful weekends I’ve had working at Valve. It felt really, really terrible reading through all of that.”

...

Then we moved on to the elephant in the room: thanks to an unsuccessful first attempt, people who would’ve otherwise been on the fence or slightly opposed to the concept of paid mods are now super opposed. Can Valve make this work in the future with all that baggage trailing behind them? Johnson thinks so.

“You need something that’s like, ‘Here’s the new thing. Somebody spent a couple years on it, and it’s amazing. It’s for sale,’” Johnson explained. “We didn’t really have anything like that [last time], so it came across poorly.”

“I think it’s about being really transparent and offering something that’s cool,” he said. “I think customers are pretty smart. I think they get it.”
Thanks Eye.

More information.
 
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Well I guess that interview is a warning. They will try again and will use heap of propaganda to tell people how cool it is to pay for mods on Steams...
 
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I have to wonder how they will support mods if they do this. If they expect payment or a percentage, then they'd better provide support or some kind of assurance that the mods actually work and don't break the game.

Otherwise, I imagine quite a shitstorm.

Not sure it's worth the effort, though I do appreciate the concept of modders getting paid for good work.
 
Well I guess that interview is a warning. They will try again and will use heap of propaganda to tell people how cool it is to pay for mods on Steams…

Yup, just you wait for Fallout 4...
 
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I still can't get over how disgusting it is for Bethesda to try and take a share of any money modders earn while improving and fixing their games.

Bethesda owes so much to modders and the community, and not just the sales that keep coming long after release. It is absolutely appalling that Bethesda would try or even want some of the money someone else may earn while improving things for Bethesda.

Steam isn't much better in this situation, wanting a cut of others hard work as always while they do little more than provide hosting.

Once mods become a source of income, for a developer or Valve, things will change.

There are also bigger concerns about where this is going, once these companies have a form of control over mods, don't think they won't see other sources as competition which has an obvious outcome. Also as they gain more control, if not full control, over mods they will also exercise that control by choosing what mods are allowed/available. Not just for legal reasons (avoid trademark infringements etc) but stopping many things under guises of "moral" reasons or whatever other spin-doctored nonsense they will, certain mods could even become considered competition for their own DLC plans something which has long been the case in many games.

It to often seems far to many people forget these are companies and not some kind of saints. They are not interested in mods to improve them or the games, they are coming for the money. Once they turn mods into profit they will want to control it, make those profits predictable and manageable, and avoid or control anything that could threaten those profits. Lets not forget when it comes to software, control comes under the name of DRM, so many still think DRM is to combat piracy (it's useless at that), DRM is about control, control over paying customers. Just like a game server going offline when the new version of a game comes out.

Also for Steam this is not purely about profits, but is entirely still self serving. They improve profits but also further solidify their hold on the market, if mods become locked into Steam then only Steam/Valve wins, not the consumer, not modding.

Some might think or say something like "but they couldn't stop modders, or stop them releasing for free", well that's not thinking things through. Once the profits are there the attempt to control will follow, which means DRM (dev tools only working via "approved" channels for distribution etc), EULA's to prohibit "unapproved" mods, and all the rest basically.

It may seem far fetched to some but again, these are companies not saints, they are getting into this for ultimately only one obvious reason.

Well I guess that interview is a warning. They will try again and will use heap of propaganda to tell people how cool it is to pay for mods on Steams…

That's pretty much it, the sad thing is there are so many people who blindly and zealously support all things Steam chances are they will pull it off.


edit,,
I don't care as long as pirating software exists as a error corrector for human greed.

This is a point I was avoiding for a few reasons, but if things go far enough it could potentially lead to a situation where you have "pirate" mods and "authorised" mods, and these groups of mods only work with only the respective version of the game, ie an uncracked game could reject unapproved mods. Remember once mods becomes a controlled source of profit, they will have no less DRM than the game they are for, if they get enough support/control to take things that far.
 
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I knew they would try this again. Started warning people after the last fight : They will try again! Gamers must remain eternally vigilant!
 
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Everyone knew they would try again. They said so last time openly.
 
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If a mod is worth playing and they provide reasonable support, I think it's fair that the modders get paid - and the people responsible for creating and providing the assets and tools required get a cut of the profit.

However, if they take an unreasonable amount of the cut, then there's an issue.

I'd go along with 5-10% of the price. Much beyond that, and I'd have to reconsider my position.

Also, I'd consider it a serious problem if this wasn't optional on the part of the modder.
 
Yup, just you wait for Fallout 4…
Heh, yes, indeed. I was pretty sure this would show up again exactly then.

Getting money for doing nothing (apart from putting a structure in place, but that's a one time thing) is the best business strategy that exists. Too hard to pass up.
 
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If a mod is worth playing and they provide reasonable support, I think it's fair that the modders get paid - and the people responsible for creating and providing the assets and tools required get a cut of the profit.

However, if they take an unreasonable amount of the cut, then there's an issue.

I'd go along with 5-10% of the price. Much beyond that, and I'd have to reconsider my position.

Except when they tried last time, it was closer to the opposite, with modders getting only a small fraction.
 
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The thing about Fallout 4 though, is that it is the same engine modders have been working with for years. Bethesda doesn't have the skill to block these guys from modding that engine. Fallout 4 will be massively modded, regardless of what Bethesda/Steam wants. There are people who can reverse engineer that whole game, since it has been taken apart and put together so many times. I don't see Fallout being the best game to try the new idea. You need something that was built from the ground up with paid mods in mind. Fallout was 3 years into development before Bethesda/Steam had this horrific idea.
 
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I just wish unofficial bugfixing mods were stuff with the price.
Maybe then blind people would finally understand what was I talking about all these years.
 
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I understand what you are saying nut but will it stop them from trying?
 
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Getting money for doing nothing (apart from putting a structure in place, but that's a one time thing) is the best business strategy that exists. Too hard to pass up.

You mean like bankers?

To be honest, a huge number of the games available on Steam feel like they are just mods, especially the early access. Day of Defeat, Counterstrike and Dayz are just mods and people have been paying for them and Steam has been collecting.
How about mod makers get paid period and Steam makes something like credit card merchant services do around 1-3 percent for distribution.
 
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You mean like bankers?

To be honest, a huge number of the games available on Steam feel like they are just mods, especially the early access. Day of Defeat, Counterstrike and Dayz are just mods and people have been paying for them and Steam has been collecting.
How about mod makers get paid period and Steam makes something like credit card merchant services do around 1-3 percent for distribution.
It is even worse as Devs will do even less and expect modders to fix it and they will get money.
 
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I still can't get over how disgusting it is for Bethesda to try and take a share of any money modders earn while improving and fixing their games.
There is zero reason (in a corporate mind) to endorse anyone making money off their property unless they take a cut. There's no other way they would allow for-profit modding. As for how much they want, it represents massive ego and an unrealistic model.

Regarding the back and forth over support, there is no way Steam is going to provide actual support to fan-made mods, as in testing, troubleshooting, etc., simply because to do so would make the whole venture unprofitable.

Mods work because the time to create them is volunteered. Yes, they could get paid as well (in some alternate universe where a massive corporation wasn't pulling the strings), but there's no way Valve is going to put any effort into this. It's just a cash grab.
 
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You mean like bankers?
No, I really mean nothing at all. It's put in place and it has intrinsic scalability. They don't even have to look at the whole thing anymore, they just need to fill in a number into their tax declaration.
 
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Except when they tried last time, it was closer to the opposite, with modders getting only a small fraction.

There's no exception. As I said, I can't support such an approach.

I'm just not condemning them before details are released.
 
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