Forged of Blood - Kickstarter Update

[HiddenX]

Here's Kickstarter update #8 for the turn based tactical RPG Forged of Blood:

Update #8 - Worldbuilding and Final Days for Thunderclap

We're all home - finally!

It's been a few long weeks but the studio team is all back together and we're going to start churning out updates at a quicker rate now. For today we have a short video talking about our approach to worldbuilding the world of Attiras and as always we want to hear your thoughts. We also have an earlier blog post on the subject if you want a little bit more information.

Finally, our Thunderclap campaign is also coming to a close in just a few days and we need all your help in getting the message out.

We'll do a faction breakdown next week so stay tuned!

More information.

 

[gabrielarantest]

When I see games like this, I can't help but to think that it is such a waste of potential. The game seems to have decent graphics and animation. But with so many good settings and systems for RPG already made, why do developers keep creating these generic settings and weird combat systems.

There are so many solid tabletop rpgs on the market that could use an adaptation...

 

[daveyd]

When I see games like this, I can't help but to think that it is such a waste of potential. The game seems to have decent graphics and animation. But with so many good settings and systems for RPG already made, why do developers keep creating these generic settings and weird combat systems.

There are so many solid tabletop rpgs on the market that could use an adaptation…

I do wonder why we don't see more CRPGs based on tabletop P&P games. I assume it mainly comes down to money (even the tabletops that aren't extremely popular would probably still ask for a decent chunk of change to let a developer adapt their IP / ruleset). The other issue I suppose would be giving up a degree of creative control or interfering with distribution agreements. For example, I remember HBS having to deal with a lot of crap from Micro$oft (who currently owns the video game rights to Shadowrun).. Microsoft was at first insisting that Shadowrun Returns & the expansions be Steam-only because Microsoft suits seem to think DRM actually prevents piracy.

I'd love to see some more CRPGs based on P&P stuff but I guess developers tend to see it as more trouble than it is worth. And when we do get them it is often casual garbage like Sword Coast Legends.

 

[Deleted User]

I'd just love to see a prominent CRPG developer actually develop a consistent ruleset as if it were a P&P game. I was/am hoping Obsidian, for example, develops a ruleset in their Pillars world. I was hoping Tyranny would be an offshoot of the Pillars world, for example. Consistent lore, locations, mechanics and ruleset would go a long way to making a more long-lasting and memorable RPG series

 

[daveyd]

Whalenought has apparently created a P&P ruleset to use for Copper Dreams (and will allow use it for the upcoming Serpent in the Staglands expansion / sequel "Banquet of Fools").

Dreamlords Digital is also doing the same thing for Graywalkers: Purgatory.

Will be interesting to see if these efforts pay off for them…

There's certainly a lot of CRPGs where the rulesets have severe shortcomings, i.e., major balance issues (not that everything needs to be perfectly balanced in a singleplayer game), but you don't want to have one stat that is so important everyone will max it and one that is always a dump stat, IMO).

 

[Deleted User]

Good to know on the new rulesets. Interested to see what Whalenought comes up with. As for paying off, I mean, I dunno it if would really pay off financially or anything, since those developers are likely going to appeal to a niche audience to begin with, but you never know I guess. I hope they do well with it because I'd like to see more things like that going forward. We have a lot of consistent RPG worlds but not really rulesets like in the olden days.

 

[luj1]

… why do developers keep creating these generic settings and weird combat systems.

This game's set in generic fantasy indeed. I prefer weird settings myself. However, what I feel is, tactical gameplay will render this matter much less relevant.

Similarly to how art direction in Battle Brothers is irrelevant for gameplay.

There are so many solid tabletop rpgs on the market that could use an adaptation…

I'm in the other boat myself. Please invent more original systems and IP. Less adaptations please.

 

[Stingray]

I'm in the other boat myself. Please invent more original systems and IP. Less adaptations please.

Problem is these computer game designers don't seem very good at creating an RPG system. Even Pillars, which is one of the more elaborate attempts recently, sucks compared to 20-30 year old versions of D&D. Adapting from tabletop would at least ensure something reasonable.

 

[luj1]

Even Pillars? To be fair you used the worst example.

 

[Stingray]

Haha yeah I think I phrased that poorly. Didn't mean Pillars is the best of the attempts, just that it was the most "elaborate" of the attempts, with probably the most time put in. And yet it still sucked. AoD/Dungeon Rats was probably the best out of the recent games I've played already, but it was also fairly simplistic, partially due to its "low magic" setting.

 

[gabrielarantest]

(…) I assume it mainly comes down to money (…)

(…) And when we do get them it is often casual garbage like Sword Coast Legends.

I think that money is the main concern for studios too. And the problem with that is those garbages like SCL. Such a letdown, such waisted resources, what a nightmare this game was. But if you think about it, SCL's studios broke. They only thought about the money and broadening their public and that was their "doom". There is a lot of people hungry for a good P&P adaptation or even a good remake (see Baldur's Gate reloaded for NWN2). Why do they insist in this business model?

This game's set in generic fantasy indeed. I prefer weird settings myself. (…)

I'm in the other boat myself. Please invent more original systems and IP. Less adaptations please.

Man, I totally disagree with you. Some new settings are welcome, but those weird system with first lvls NPCs with 400HP… just no. And that is because PC game developers not only are bad in creating new system, they also can't create a system that is good as others that have been there for more than 30 years.

Problem is these computer game designers don't seem very good at creating an RPG system. Even Pillars, which is one of the more elaborate attempts recently, sucks compared to 20-30 year old versions of D&D. Adapting from tabletop would at least ensure something reasonable.

I couldn't agree with you more. Have you ever played a game that it seems that doesn't matter if you level up you PC because every monster is designed to be there and keep the same difficulty? That is a perfect example of bad system design. In those games you don't get that experience like in BG where you find a Lich in some random place and it doesn't matter if you're prepared or not.

Not only D&D games have good adaptation. There are some pretty good adptations out there, like shadowrun and the overlooked The Dark Eye.


Ps. PoE system sucks *a lot*. But the rest of the game is ok.

 

[Stingray]

Have you ever played a game that it seems that doesn't matter if you level up you PC because every monster is designed to be there and implement the same difficulty as always?

Yeah, I assume this question was rhetorical, cause it's so sadly common these days. Games from Bethesda are probably the premier example of it, and they were pretty much the pioneers of this kind of horrible design where you have to wonder why the level/stats/skills/etc systems are even there, other than just to try to convey a false feeling to the player that he's actually playing an RPG.

Ps. PoE system sucks *a lot*. But the rest of the game is ok.

Agreed, rest of the game was fine.

 

[daveyd]

Good to know on the new rulesets. Interested to see what Whalenought comes up with. As for paying off, I mean, I dunno it if would really pay off financially or anything, since those developers are likely going to appeal to a niche audience to begin with, but you never know I guess. I hope they do well with it because I'd like to see more things like that going forward. We have a lot of consistent RPG worlds but not really rulesets like in the olden days.

Well, by "pay off" I meant more as in benefit the players with a more interesting, "balanced", and enjoyable ruleset. For all those game's faults I greatly enjoyed creating characters in NWN (1&2)... You can spend hours just reading the manual and planning out your build. I want that experience in more CRPGs, but lately we get RPGs where build just doesn't matter much. Unfortunately, I'm sure there is a lot of people that will be turned off by Copper Dreams low poly 3D graphics, but I hope it will still bring Whalenought some success. Graywalkers might be more financially successful simply by virtue of having more modern graphics.

Anyway, on topic, it's a shame that it doesn't look like Forged of Blood's goal will be reached. Critical Forge has said they'll release the game even if the KS fails so I really wonder why they set their funding goal so high...

 

[screeg]

I feel like even using the word "design" gives these companies too much credit. Even the superstar AAA companies are simply cobbling together something iterated from older work, like trying to resurrect the feel of Planescape or Baldur's Gate, but they fail because they just don't have the chops to do it. Then you throw the cash grab (okay, how can we do this on the cheap and fast?) into the mix and you get Tyranny.

 

[joesys]

Anyway, on topic, it's a shame that it doesn't look like Forged of Blood's goal will be reached. Critical Forge has said they'll release the game even if the KS fails so I really wonder why they set their funding goal so high…

Hi Daveyd,

Part of the reason we come to KS is for expanded production value. While it is true from business perspective that a lower amount will help our financial, we feel it is not to our backer's interest.

For better or worse, quality tends to correlate with cost. Not always, but generally true. We asked for S$150k which roughly translate to US $107k. That is before KS's fee and taxes. We plan to release the game in 2018. So that amount should cover roughly 1 year of expanded work.

Business contract is confidential by nature and I'm bound to certain NDA so I cannot speak in specific. However, a quick google tells us that a game writer can expect US$60k in salary and a vfx artist can expect US$ 68k / year. We also have to factor in additional fund to commission more soundtracks and voice acting.

If we are to shoot lower, let's say S$50k which roughly translate to US$35k, we stand a better chance to make KS a success. However, that comes under a question if the quality is sufficient to our backers to notice. Does a cheaper writer significantly better than our in house's writers (not me, so please don't judge our writers by my post)? Does a cheaper vfx specialist is noticeably better than our in house artist?

Again, cost does not guarantee quality. However, if KS is funded, we can say say we have published writers who worked on such and such game. We think that's a more transparent usage of money that our backer funded as compared to "we pay our high school friend" to write for us.

Secondly, we feel the onus is on us to prove that we are serious about our game. Developing a game takes a lot of money. First link in google gives: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_costs which, according to ESA Canada, a PC game cost an average of close to US$1 million to develop. Asking for a low amount in KS for a project that cost an average of $1 million seems more like a money grab than using the fund to properly add enhancements into game. Are we saying if someone can raise a US$1 million, he or she still need to go to KS to ask for another US$35k?

For the record, our development cost is not that high.

So yes, from business perspective, it makes sense to ask for lower amount. However, that changes the nature of KS funding from "help us make our game better" to a very early "pre-order". We all have been burned by pre-order or funded-but-not-delivered project before so we prefer to avoid that with our backers. We may have a pre-order but that'd be close to release so that the gamers will know what to expect exactly.

Thanks for supporting us all these time
-Joe