A new gaming PC

[Redglyph]

The Mainboard is from Asus.
It has 8 GB RAM.
The system is located on a fast SSD drive, that was something very new to me, then.

The only wish they didn't implement was to install Win7 32 bit on that, too.

You see, it might be far too old right now.
Although, what I play, plays fairly good, with only a few exceptions (graphics intensive things).

You have Windows 7 32-bit and 8 GB of RAM? That's half your memory wasted because you can't really access past 4 GB. I suggest you don't go back to this computer shop.

Otherwise, it may not be that old. I see it's still possible to buy i7 CPUs with the socket of your motherboard (LGA 1151), like the i7-7700 K. You can install an NVMe module since you have an M2 slot, or maybe you already have one, if that's what you mean by fast SSD. And it's possible to upgrade the GPU. So you could keep the motherboard, the case, the disk drives, the power unit if it's enough for the new components, the RAM if it doesn't slow down the new CPU if you replace that (you may need to check that the motherboard doesn't slow down the new CPU either).

But the first thing to do would be to install Windows 10 64-bit (I would avoid Windows 11).

Again, it depends what you want to do with it. Replacing too many items could be more costly than buying a new one.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

You have Windows 7 32-bit and 8 GB of RAM? That's half your memory wasted because you can't really access past 4 GB. I suggest you don't go back to this computer shop.

No, it's actually 64 bit.
I wanted to have an installation of 32 bit parallel to that, but they didn't do that.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Still doesn't explain what you need or want it for.

Your last sentence says it's still good so is it just a minor upgrade you want. If so any of the newer computers with 16gb of ram and latest dedicated gpu should be much better at a relatively low cost.

Sounds good. I'll ask the shop if that's possible without violating their PC guarantee (or how that's called in English).

 

[Gorath]

For a cheap upgrade:
[edited] google for the way to upgrade to Win10 / 11 for free. There is still a way to do it. I think Gamestar has the details.
This will unlock the other half of your RAM.
Then you might also want to double the RAM, if you can do so for a couple of bucks.

Replacing your graphics card, which was meant for office purposes, with anything capable of actually running games will boost your PC's performance quit a bit.
The next gen graphics cards (Geforce 4000 series and AMD equivalent) are around the corner and the expectation is they'll double performance once again. So maybe you can find some used nVidia card for cheap. Anything from a 1060 upwards will give you quite the boost.

I wouldn't invest more than a few of these cheap upgrades into this old PC.

If you want to buy a new one I recommend to wait another year. AMD is going to roll out a big CPU upgrade which forces new tech. So new mainboards with DDR-5 RAM and PCI 5 are coming soon. Intel will have to counter. So they'll become the new standard.

Next year is a good opportunity to get ahead of the curve and buy a new PC with everything you need out of the box. A carefully chosen 2023 PC will last for a decade, with a graphics upgrade or two.

 

[Pladio]

If you want to start from scratch this website isn't bad.

It's a good starting point and then people here can give more advice.

Have a look at the drop down and select Germany.

Then have a look at the different tiers and your budget.

https://www.logicalincrements.com/

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

For a cheap upgrade:
Get a Windows 7 or Windows 10 key on ebay. Or google for the way to upgrade to Win10 / 11 for free. There is still a way to do it. I think Gamestar has the details.
This will unlock the other half of your RAM.
Then you might also want to double the RAM, if you can do so for a couple of bucks.

Replacing your graphics card, which was meant for office purposes, with anything capable of actually running games will boost your PC's performance quit a bit.
The next gen graphics cards (Geforce 4000 series and AMD equivalent) are around the corner and the expectation is they'll double performance once again. So maybe you can find some used nVidia card for cheap. Anything from a 1060 upwards will give you quite the boost.

I wouldn't invest more than a few of these cheap upgrades into this old PC.

If you want to buy a new one I recommend to wait another year. AMD is going to roll out a big CPU upgrade which forces new tech. So new mainboards with DDR-5 RAM and PCI 5 are coming soon. Intel will have to counter. So they'll become the new standard.

Next year is a good opportunity to get ahead of the curve and buy a new PC with everything you need out of the box. A carefully chosen 2023 PC will last for a decade, with a graphics upgrade or two.

Thank you. That's very helpful for me.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I have another question.

Regarding monitors, I'm a total noob.
I understand graphics cards, mostly, but not monitors.

So, I have this question : My monitor has seemingly a maximum refresh rate of 60 Hz.
Does a faster graphics card make even sense, then ? When the refresh rate is fixed ?
As I said, I don't understand monitors.
So far I've been happy with mine.

The specs of my current monitor (in German language) : https://www.lg.com/de/monitore/lg-W2242T

At the site called "Tom's Hardware" I read this :

Consider your refresh rate. If your monitor has triple-digit refresh rates, you'll need a powerful card and processor to reach its full potential. Alternatively, if your monitor tops out at 60Hz and 1080p, there's no point in paying extra for a powerful card that pushes pixels faster than your display can keep up with.

Source : https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-buying-guide,5844.html

Edit : I just figured that I must look at how much power the power source within the PC can provide - and how much the cooling system is capable of cooling it - I really do not want to have flames coming out of my PC, really !
The other thing I do not want are melted components because of too much heat, either.


Just another edit : I was just reading this : https://www.tomshardware.com/news/m...pu-requirements-have-changed-after-22h2-gaffe
The interesting point is, that suddenly, today, I was NOT presented the usual blue screen "support on Windows 7 has rrun out", but I was suddenly presented a Microsoft web page with an advice to upgrade to Windows 11 !
So, it seems that this report is kinda right ...

 

[daveyd]

I have another question.

Regarding monitors, I'm a total noob.
I understand graphics cards, mostly, but not monitors.

So, I have this question : My monitor has seemingly a maximum refresh rate of 60 Hz.
Does a faster graphics card make even sense, then ? When the refresh rate is fixed ?
As I said, I don't understand monitors.
So far I've been happy with mine.

Well, it also depends on what type of games you're playing and at what resolution.

The main way game performance is measured is frames per second. (You can measure fps while running a game with a program like FRAPS if you're curious). Ideally you want your fps to meet / exceed your refresh rate; so if it's 60Hz, you would like to be getting 60+ fps.

Your hardware, especially your graphics card will determine how many fps you get, but also what resolution your monitor is. A higher resolution will require more processing power for the same game. And you will tend to get less fps when running a modern graphically demanding AAA game than a less demanding older / indie game. And of course you can also increase fps by turning down or off various graphics settings.

If you're consistently getting 120+ fps in the games you run then getting a 120Hz monitor might be worth getting. If you're getting 120 fps on a 60 Hz monitor then you're essentially seeing every frame twice. But it may also depend on what types of games you play. You'd probably appreciate higher fps more with an action game than other genres where there isn't as much rapid movement happening anyway.

If you're pretty happy with the way games you want to play are running on your system, then there's really no need to upgrade anything now.

 

[Arhu]

Next year is a good opportunity to get ahead of the curve and buy a new PC with everything you need out of the box. A carefully chosen 2023 PC will last for a decade, with a graphics upgrade or two.

I'm in the same situation as Alrik. My PC is from 2016 and is actually still okay-ish for the games I play, but it feels like an upgrade is in order. I also want Win11. Next year sounds excellent so I can start saving up for it.

I'm into building my own PC though. Currently I have: Intel i5, 16 GB RAM, Radeon RX 470, SSDs for everything. What kind of investment would I have to expect if I want to replace everything? Don't need a new monitor. I prefer a good price/value ratio over cutting edge.

A general ballpark would be nice to have, if anyone knows. I usually look into things in detail only when a purchase is imminent.

Thanks!

 

[Pladio]

I'm in the same situation as Alrik. My PC is from 2016 and is actually still okay-ish for the games I play, but it feels like an upgrade is in order. I also want Win11. Next year sounds excellent so I can start saving up for it.

I'm into building my own PC though. Currently I have: Intel i5, 16 GB RAM, Radeon RX 470, SSDs for everything. What kind of investment would I have to expect if I want to replace everything? Don't need a new monitor. I prefer a good price/value ratio over cutting edge.

A general ballpark would be nice to have, if anyone knows. I usually look into things in detail only when a purchase is imminent.

Thanks!

I am not an expert but I'd recommend the latest i5 or ryzen 5 equivalent. 32gb of ram and something like a rtx3070 or 3070ti if you have an extra 100 bucks.

 

[notdart]

If your current system is adequate for the games you play I'm going to strongly disagree with @Pladio;. My logic is that the RX 470 is quite slow relative to high end gpu and therefore the 3070 and similar are significant overkill. The only real reason to upgrade your system is to support win 11 tpm requirement; though an add in card might solve that requirement (if you can find one). If you want to upgrade then alder lake i5 such as i5-12400 if it is not discontinued by the time you build your system. 16GB or ram will be more than adequate. For GPU something like 3060 (which is a small upgrade) or RX 6600. Of course if you find graphics slow for the games you play or you wish to play games with higher end graphics then you can get something significantly faster depending on budget and desire. AMD will be moving to new processors by next year but their i5 will be more than fast enough if you prefer amd over intel. While amd is more cost effective per instruction i prefer intel mb chipset; so that is a personal preference.
Of course you don't have to upgrade your gpu and you could simply move it to the new system. If you have ddr4 ram you could reuse that but i suspect you have ddr3 which is no longer supported in new motherboards. I typically run my machines 10 to 14 years since cpu are fast enough (though i have upgraded gpu a few time). I upgraded game system this year because the mb failed and ddr 3 was no longer supported; but my non-game sever was last upgraded in 2009; though I will likely upgrade it next year.

I'm in the same situation as Alrik. My PC is from 2016 and is actually still okay-ish for the games I play, but it feels like an upgrade is in order. I also want Win11. Next year sounds excellent so I can start saving up for it.

I'm into building my own PC though. Currently I have: Intel i5, 16 GB RAM, Radeon RX 470, SSDs for everything. What kind of investment would I have to expect if I want to replace everything? Don't need a new monitor. I prefer a good price/value ratio over cutting edge.

A general ballpark would be nice to have, if anyone knows. I usually look into things in detail only when a purchase is imminent.

Thanks!

I am not an expert but I'd recommend the latest i5 or ryzen 5 equivalent. 32gb of ram and something like a rtx3070 or 3070ti if you have an extra 100 bucks.

 

[Arhu]

The only real reason to upgrade your system is to support win 11 tpm requirement; though an add in card might solve that requirement (if you can find one).

I looked into it a year ago and decided it wasn't worth the money I would have had to put in. Not if I want to make a complete system overhaul anyway. I got a new workstation laptop at work recently and it's a very noticeable difference for development with Visual Studio Code, general snappiness etc. So that's another reason I want to upgrade.

I don't have a specific brand preference. My monitor has Freesync though, so GeForce is not an option? Or are they interchangeable nowadays? As for Intel vs. AMD, as long as they are quiet and don't draw too much power, I'm fine with both.

Don't need any upgrade right now, even my old GPU seems good enough for me still. Going to wait for the new processor lineup.

Maybe I'll set my budget to 1500 EUR for everything including a new case, some time in 2023. My PSU is the only thing I'll keep, I guess, plus my old SSDs.

 

[Pladio]

If your current system is adequate for the games you play I'm going to strongly disagree with @Pladio;. My logic is that the RX 470 is quite slow relative to high end gpu and therefore the 3070 and similar are significant overkill. The only real reason to upgrade your system is to support win 11 tpm requirement; though an add in card might solve that requirement (if you can find one). If you want to upgrade then alder lake i5 such as i5-12400 if it is not discontinued by the time you build your system. 16GB or ram will be more than adequate. For GPU something like 3060 (which is a small upgrade) or RX 6600. Of course if you find graphics slow for the games you play or you wish to play games with higher end graphics then you can get something significantly faster depending on budget and desire. AMD will be moving to new processors by next year but their i5 will be more than fast enough if you prefer amd over intel. While amd is more cost effective per instruction i prefer intel mb chipset; so that is a personal preference.
Of course you don't have to upgrade your gpu and you could simply move it to the new system. If you have ddr4 ram you could reuse that but i suspect you have ddr3 which is no longer supported in new motherboards. I typically run my machines 10 to 14 years since cpu are fast enough (though i have upgraded gpu a few time). I upgraded game system this year because the mb failed and ddr 3 was no longer supported; but my non-game sever was last upgraded in 2009; though I will likely upgrade it next year.

Like, I said - I'm not an expert

I was going off Arhu's PC being 6 years old already and wanting an upgrade. I think your points are quite valid. Only question I would have is that by doing those more minor upgrades, how long would the PC last ?

My view is maybe a few more years before it then needs another component upgrade, but I don't know.

Like you say, it is highly dependent on the games @Arhu; wants to play ?
Any views on that Arhu ?

 

[daveyd]

I think 32GB RAM is probably overkill for most gamers. Watched some recent videos testing out RAM configurations on various AAA games and it seemed like there wasn't a significant benefit even going beyond 8GB. (The most important thing is that it is dual channel, so two 4GB sticks shows a significant improvement over one 8gb stick). While it does seem flight sims have pretty high RAM recommendations, 8 is still the most common recommendation for games. In the next several years there will probably be more games recommending 16GB, so I'm looking to get two 8GB sticks for my next PC.

That said, RAM isn't very expensive unless you're getting DDR5 so you could get 32GB to be on the "safe side". And if you like to leave a bunch of apps running in the background it may even come in handy.

 

[Pladio]

I think 32GB RAM is probably overkill for most gamers. Watched some recent videos testing out RAM configurations on various AAA games and it seemed like there wasn't a significant benefit even going beyond 8GB. (The most important thing is that it is dual channel, so two 4GB sticks shows a significant improvement over one 8gb stick). While it does seem flight sims have pretty high RAM recommendations, 8 is still the most common recommendation for games. In the next several years there will probably be more games recommending 16GB, so I'm looking to get two 8GB sticks for my next PC.

That said, RAM isn't very expensive unless you're getting DDR5 so you could get 32GB to be on the "safe side". And if you like to leave a bunch of apps running in the background it may even come in handy.

I would somewhat disagree if you do any real type of multitasking and are thinking about the longer term.
I have Chrome, Steam, GOG Galaxy and some other applications open and I'm already using 5.5GB of RAM. With King Arthur open it goes to around 8.1GB. So yes, for now, 16GB will be enough, but since - like you say - RAM is relatively cheap and it is better to go for 2 x yGB - then for future proofing I would recommend 2 x 16GB rather than 2 x 8 GB.

 

[daveyd]

I would somewhat disagree if you do any real type of multitasking and are thinking about the longer term.
I have Chrome, Steam, GOG Galaxy and some other applications open and I'm already using 5.5GB of RAM. With King Arthur open it goes to around 8.1GB. So yes, for now, 16GB will be enough, but since - like you say - RAM is relatively cheap and it is better to go for 2 x yGB - then for future proofing I would recommend 2 x 16GB rather than 2 x 8 GB.

Well, it definitely wouldn't be the biggest waste of money; better than blowing it on RGB or flashy excessive liquid coolers at least

Really depends on what you plan to do, how tight your budget is, and also MB. (e.g., If you've got a board with 4 DIMM slots you could get two 8GB sticks now and get two more of them later if you decide you need it.)

For me, I'm leaning towards buying a pre-built, likely priced around $1000. Should be fine for me, considering I'm happy with my 1080p monitor & don't even play many AAA games. Most prebuilts these days tend to have 16GB. While I could buy another pair of 8GB sticks, I figure I might as well wait until I think I'll need it.

 

[bjon045]

Also, in most countries a RX6700XT is significantly cheaper than a 3070 despite being faster. Most AMD cards are now available below MSRP. The only reason to get a 3070 is if you are doing encoding for streaming.

The 6700XT has improved a lot since release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en8dpf--o0w

 

[Pladio]

Also, in most countries a RX6700XT is significantly cheaper than a 3070 despite being faster. Most AMD cards are now available below MSRP. The only reason to get a 3070 is if you are doing encoding for streaming.

The 6700XT has improved a lot since release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en8dpf--o0w

I'm not familiar enough with AMD GPUs. I've always had NVidia. Is there a table that compares "like-for-like" ? I.e. 3070 vs 6700XT; 3070Ti vs 6800 ? Something like that ?

 

[bjon045]

I'm not familiar enough with AMD GPUs. I've always had NVidia. Is there a table that compares "like-for-like" ? I.e. 3070 vs 6700XT; 3070Ti vs 6800 ? Something like that ?

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

The chart is pretty good. If anything is less than 5fps difference in your target resolution then I would shop based on price assuming the price difference is significant.

The chart does show the 3070 slightly ahead of the 6700xt but I think that might be because the tests were done prior to the new drivers that came out this month that improved performance quite a bit - but that is not to say it will stay that way, i'm sure the next Nvidia driver will have improvements as well

It's good that we are finally in an "okay" time to buy a GPU.

 

[Redglyph]

I'm another one who don't know AMD (ex-ATI) GPUs too well. I had too many bad experiences with that brand so it may take a long time before I'm buying one again. Part of it was messy drivers, a tiny part probably due to NVIDIA collaborating with game makers to make sure it was running well on their hardware. Maybe they've finally produced something good, I don't know. If I absolutely had to buy one, I'd first read a lot on it to make sure it's stable.

We should see Intel's new GPU soon, that could be an interesting turn of events.