Alaloth - Early Access Anniversary
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Vaelith
Lawful Evil Harbinger
"After 1 year of selling you an unfinished game, we will now sell a more complete game (still not finished!) at a discount hoping to get a bit more money right now. If you paid more for less, you might feel scammed and windering why are we so desperate to gather scraps from the bottom of the barrel, but keep in mind we are dressing this as a celebration, so no pouting! Maybe one day we will finish the game, and you will be able to brag about being on along for the ride. See you all in the 2-year of selling you an incomplete game celebration, for an even greater discount!".
I apologise for the cynicism. I'm just still processing how this whole Early Access thing became accepted, I am probably just getting old
I apologise for the cynicism. I'm just still processing how this whole Early Access thing became accepted, I am probably just getting old
To be fair, it's not their first discount, nor the first one at -60%. A little strange, but there you are.
The EA that I found a little exaggerated was BG3, with a full price from the start, never any discount, and a feedback system which was very badly organized. But like any EA, those who bought it (including me) had the choice. We mostly knew what we were getting into, so it's hard to complain about it. We were just willingly being ripped off.
There's worse: Owlcat Games making people pay more for a beta (and not just a little). Perhaps the idea is to get people who are really motivated? I don't know.
In my view, a good way to handle a Early Access is to propose it at a reduced price. Some increase it progressively until it gets at the normal price near the release date, which is fine too.
The EA that I found a little exaggerated was BG3, with a full price from the start, never any discount, and a feedback system which was very badly organized. But like any EA, those who bought it (including me) had the choice. We mostly knew what we were getting into, so it's hard to complain about it. We were just willingly being ripped off.
There's worse: Owlcat Games making people pay more for a beta (and not just a little). Perhaps the idea is to get people who are really motivated? I don't know.
In my view, a good way to handle a Early Access is to propose it at a reduced price. Some increase it progressively until it gets at the normal price near the release date, which is fine too.
Believe I made my negative opinion know many times about this developer. It's a shame though as at one time I was really interested in this game, but man that developer.
Vaelith
Lawful Evil Harbinger
To be fair, it's not their first discount, nor the first one at -60%. A little strange, but there you are.
The EA that I found a little exaggerated was BG3, with a full price from the start, never any discount, and a feedback system which was very badly organized. But like any EA, those who bought it (including me) had the choice. We mostly knew what we were getting into, so it's hard to complain about it. We were just willingly being ripped off.
There's worse: Owlcat Games making people pay more for a beta (and not just a little). Perhaps the idea is to get people who are really motivated? I don't know.
In my view, a good way to handle a Early Access is to propose it at a reduced price. Some increase it progressively until it gets at the normal price near the release date, which is fine too.
BG3 EA is no exception, I don't like it either. I feel they used it more as a vehicle to create hype than to get funding, as Larian surely doesn't need the money to fully develop the game after the massive success of the DOS titles, but I just accept it as what it is. A hype-generating machine that is nothing but annoying for those of us who just want to play games when the games are actually ready to be played, without having to walk on eggshells about what we read in case it contains unsolicited spoilers.
Andrew23
Keeper of the Watch
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I never touched any game in early access. I dont have enough time to play all the finished games I am interested in, not chance to lose even more time to do free of charge betatester.
But I perfectly understand why EA is interesting for developers and I get there are other people then me, who are interested in playing games in EA. Reasons are so obvious, anyone should be able to think about few by himself.
But what I still dont get is the grudge some people have. Seems they just cant plainly ignore it and are personally offended by its existence. I am yet to hear any logical argument why EA is problematic. Its always just about emotions and hurt feelings.
But I perfectly understand why EA is interesting for developers and I get there are other people then me, who are interested in playing games in EA. Reasons are so obvious, anyone should be able to think about few by himself.
But what I still dont get is the grudge some people have. Seems they just cant plainly ignore it and are personally offended by its existence. I am yet to hear any logical argument why EA is problematic. Its always just about emotions and hurt feelings.
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Correct it's illlogical welcome to the human race as that's what we are. Most people will obviously post what they feel, and it you have hurt feelings they will post more.
Vaelith
Lawful Evil Harbinger
I thought I just posted a very logical reason, so if this is related to my post, I would appeal to reading comprehension. If it's not, ignore this.
Ever since BG3 is in Early Access, reading anything anywhere about the game is a potential spoiler, and that's mighty annoying because you want to know things about the game you love, but logically you don't want to know anything about its story or specific details about the adventure itself. In these boards alone, I found multiple spoilers already with details about certain encounters, certain companions, and certain quests that I really didn't want to know beforehand, much less from unsolicited random forum posters. It's never safe to have a conversation about a game that you're looking forward to without someone out of nowhere ruining a magical moment that you would have loved to run into on your own.
That alone is a sound logical reason to dislike Early Access.
I wouldn't bother I and others tried the logical and illogical route with him before. I found your point sound and you gave a good reasoning to explain your point.
Andrew23
Keeper of the Watch
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Im looking forward to play the game on release myself and avoiding spoilers is easy enough for me. But I usually have no problem to stop reading, when it gets too information rich, even though its about game I will probably like (its not released yet, right). Still, far from hating open development model on my side...
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I don't think they needed the money either. Hype is certainly one goal, they make a pretty good show.
Don't you think they genuinely want to get people's feedback too? I believe that's a great motivator for them, but of course there's the drawback of listening to the most vocal fans and adapting the game too much. On the other hand, perhaps there's less risk that they take silly decisions that everyone regrets later.
I'm fine with the EA concept in general. But, as you said below,
spoilers are a problem. There are the announcements in news threads, that you could ignore, but anyone in another BG3 discussion - or being OOT in another thread - may say something about what was said in those announcements.
I haven't thought about that before. I suppose we could try to pay more attention to that, but I'm sure we'll occasionally forget about it in the heat of the discussion.
I have absolutely no discipline for that.
Well, I guess I have, sometimes, but I'm just too curious.
Zloth
I smell a... wumpus!?
EA is very good for beta testing. The QA department can only do so much. I'm dubious about using it for hype, too, as the hype is showing up far too long before the game's actual release. It seems to long for beta testing, too, for that matter.
There's also some weirdness going on with EA's. All the buzz for Mount & Blade 2 happened when the EA for showed up, for instance. Its release didn't seem to make much noise at all. I get the impression that the majority (maybe a pretty big majority) played the game in its early beta state and never saw the 'full' game.
P.S. Hmmm, I think I said that before about M&B2 and got hit with some convincing stats that said otherwise. If so, please whack me again.
There's also some weirdness going on with EA's. All the buzz for Mount & Blade 2 happened when the EA for showed up, for instance. Its release didn't seem to make much noise at all. I get the impression that the majority (maybe a pretty big majority) played the game in its early beta state and never saw the 'full' game.
P.S. Hmmm, I think I said that before about M&B2 and got hit with some convincing stats that said otherwise. If so, please whack me again.
It's not a matter of finished or not (it's EA after all), but that the game is pretty bad: wasd movement is awful in isometric, combat is very meh and (less important) graphics are of various quality depending on zone. I couldnt get past that.
They havent fixed the main flaws in a year.
Yeah like I said many times I never hated it was on Early Access. It's the developer who look like clueless amateurs, and made some very questionable decisions.
I would really love if the dropped publisher would ever comment on those issues.
On the plus side they learned that commutaction is nesscary with all the updates.
I would really love if the dropped publisher would ever comment on those issues.
On the plus side they learned that commutaction is nesscary with all the updates.
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Vaelith
Lawful Evil Harbinger
I don't hate Early Access either. I suppose I feel about it like I feel about smoking. It's hard to rationalize why anyone would fall for it, in my mind one is just tossing money away to their own detriment, but it's clear that to them it has value, and that's fine. It is just unfortunate when people who don't want to smoke have to suffer the stink of cigarettes anyway.
The developers hyped this one too hard. "Baldur's Gate and Dark Souls had a baby!" in the Steam description is just silly.
Maybe I'll try it when it's finished, but I wasn't impressed at all when I tried it during the beta test.
Maybe I'll try it when it's finished, but I wasn't impressed at all when I tried it during the beta test.
EA is usually a cheap tool for testing everything except the content of later acts. It's good - at least to test all the graphics cards and system configurations - but sometimes it's poorly organized, with no visible bug tracker and people who are left to post in multiple forums without any feedback on the process. Usually when it's like this, I just give up after reporting a few bugs and seeing it's going nowhere. Sometimes it's better and more motivating.
But the best tool would be a closed beta with a selection of people who test the full game under NDA, and a little reward for those who gave enough feedback.
But the best tool would be a closed beta with a selection of people who test the full game under NDA, and a little reward for those who gave enough feedback.
Carnifex
SasqWatch
I don't mind the early access concept, anything that helps developers I think is a good thing for both sides of the fence. Just don't expect me to que up for it, I simply don't find it enjoyable as I did a few decades ago.