Avernum: Escape From the Pit - First Impressions

[HiddenX]

Mortismal Gaming checked out Avernum: Escape From the Pit:

Avernum: Escape From The Pit - First Impressions

Thanks Couchpotato!

More information.

 

[bkrueger]

At the first glance I thought, that they made a new version, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Pessimeister]

This was my first Spiderweb game way back when; I posted my first impressions and some of my adventures here as well. I have to honestly ask what the hell took Mortismal so long though.

Edit: Found my old thread; 13 years ago. How time flies. https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/threads/avernum-escape-from-the-pit-impressions-thread.18136/

 

[Carnifex]

This was my second Spiderweb game and I'll be likely getting this version as well, unless it's literally just the same as previous.

 

[Stingray]

This was my second Spiderweb game and I'll be likely getting this version as well, unless it's literally just the same as previous.

The thing he's reviewing here is the 2011 remake of the 2000 remake of the 1997 game. Nothing even remotely new...

 

[Carnifex]

Ahhh ok, then I can just replay the classic, that works.

 

[Stingray]

The new thing that's coming out soon (later this year) is Avernum 4: Greed and Glory, the first remake of Avernum 4 from 2005.

 

[Bedwyr]

Oh wow what a coincidence. I’m doing a 2025 RPG challenge to complete 12 RPGs I never finished. Avernum is the first and I’m about 90 hours in enjoying myself thoroughly.

 

[JDR13]

It was dated at release. I'd hate to be playing it for the first time now.

 

[Stingray]

The graphics are still "good enough" and wouldn't bother me too much...what does bother me is the complete lack of background music in his games.

 

[Pessimeister]

That's easily fixed to be honest by playing your own fantasy oriented soundtracks in the background, ambient or otherwise. It's what I've done for all of the Avernum's and Avadon's. Ultima and Might and Magic works well as does the brilliant Divine Divinity soundtrack.

It might be dated but what these games offer is pure party based, turn based gameplay. They fit a particular niche and taste very well. I can tell you honestly that I much preferred Avernum 4 when I played it to Bard's Tale IV; both of which I completed during the Pandemic. I still have the Geneforge games to go through yet though.

 

[Stingray]

That's easily fixed to be honest by playing your own fantasy oriented soundtracks in the background, ambient or otherwise. It's what I've done for all of the Avernum's and Avadon's. Ultima and Might and Magic works well as does the brilliant Divine Divinity soundtrack.

Last Spiderweb game I played, I actually used the D:OS1 soundtrack
I think Ultima music would seem out-of-place. It's too tied to Britannia in my mind.

 

[Vaelith]

I played Geneforge and Avernum not too long ago, fun games for a few hours, but objectively speaking, rather shallow in general in all aspects. Shallow combat, shallow graphics, shallow music, and the writing, as always, down to personal preference - to me, the writing style was amateurish, but good enough for the game.

I imagine most of the value for these games is nostalgic, and as someone who first came in contact with them around 2018, that doesn't add any value to me either.

It would have been amazing to have played them 20-25 years ago, feels bad to have missed that opportunity, but there's just so much time for hobbies in life, alas.

 

[vanedor]

I started the spiderweb games by playing the Exile shareware games, back then. The Avernum games were basically a remake of these games. They are certainly fun. So much to explore, interesting stories, and nice tactical fights. But I agree, they are also «shallow».

Jeff Vogel is a survivor. A game designer / developer who has managed to stay active with his 1-man enterprise doing the same sort of game for 30 years which by itself is pretty impressive.

But it came with a cost. So much of what he did were just remakes of previous works. And even his new games, such as the recent Queen's wish... it's not long before that you figure out the old Exile/Avedon under the thin layer of the novelties of the newer series.

 

[Carnifex]

True, if you're looking for games with real depth in the overall story, Spiderweb games are likely not going to scratch that itch.

 

[bkrueger]

My experience is similar to that stated already by others: I played the Avadon games on release and found them fun enough. But when I tried others, like Escape from the Pit or Geneforge, I found them boring, because they were too similar. So for me the conclusion was: One or two are ok but that is enough. I can understand, however, if somebody likes the style that much, that they play all of the games. It is like having a preferred meal. You can eat it again and again, even the taste is always the same.

 

[Shagnak]

For me, what Avernum has over Avadon, et al, is the use of an overland map traversal that zooms down to local map traversal for encounters and places of interest (i.e., towns and dungeons and the like).
This gives a nice sense of scale that his other games don't have. Well, except for his Queen's series, which I found to be fairly disappointing.

I played the original* Avernum, but played the remakes of 2 and 3 (because I didn't finish the originals* of those) and thought they were better than the Avadons.
(* yeah, yeah, I know that technically the "originals" are the Exile series, but you know what I mean)

 

[lackblogger]

One or two are ok but that is enough. I can understand, however, if somebody likes the style that much, that they play all of the games. It is like having a preferred meal. You can eat it again and again, even the taste is always the same.

The best thing about the Avernum series is that they do indeed change quite a lot from entry to entry. They do evolve, both mechanically and story-wise.

I only played the 1st Geneforge and it wasn't my thing particularly, so can't comment on how they change over the series, but I did play all the Avadons and they don't really change much, but they weren't very taxing so it was easier to just play them in the way you deescribe, like a nice comfort food, but I was thoroughly bored of it all towards the end of the third.

So with the Avernums it wasn't until I'd completed the 5th one that I finally burned out on them. Avernum 3 is a sort of gold standard of the avernum series, where it's peaking at mechanics and story beats and, IMO, one of the all time great RPGs by almost any standard.

 

[JFarrell71]

The graphics are still "good enough" and wouldn't bother me too much...what does bother me is the complete lack of background music in his games.

Music, if it existed, would almost certainly be one or maybe two (town/wilderness) short looped tracks, over and over. That's far worse than nothing, imo. He's not a musician and he doesn't have money in his budgets to hire them.

I've dabbled in their games several times over the years. I finished a couple of Geneforge games and played parts of a few others. I *think* I finished the first Avernum in its remade form (or maybe I quit near the end), and I've played parts of all six. I've played chunks of the first Avadon, and a tiny bit of the first Queen's Wish. I finished Nethergate.

They don't really hold my attention, if you can't tell. His writing is too '80s gamebook to really get its hooks in me. I found the premise/world of Geneforge to be more interesting, so I tended to play those longer.

The games don't evolve much from iteratioon to iteration. I looked at some screenshots of the upcoming Avernum 4 "remake". Barely changed. He knows how to keep his fanbase engaged, I guess.

 

[Pessimeister]

Each to their own I guess. I like distilling gameplay down to its essence with RPGs now and again. Not everything has to be War & Peace or the Brothers Karamazov. It's nice to mix things up a little.

Let me create a party of adventurers and wander off into a world that has reasonably consistent lore and a sense of its own history with characters and places you get to know over time. The Avernums do this quite well and the Avadons do it in a slightly more linear fashion with a Bioware-lite approach. They also carry on the Ultima 4-5 tradition rather neatly for me. Particularly
from an exploration sense. Not many game series have that sense of connected world building over time that Spiderweb games manage to do.

Contrarily, the games which aspire towards "depth" sometimes simply don't do anything for me or I bounce off them for awhile. It is what it is. In the end we all return to what gives us pleasure in this hobby.