Baldur's Gate 3 - Next Panel from Hell: July 7

[Couchpotato]

Cough…I call bullshit as the game was in development a year before Early Access. It's actually been in development for almost four years already, but I get your point.:lol:

 

[bjon045]

The complaints about Larian and BG3 and how much they show kinda boils down to punishing Larian for being transparent about their process. It's not taking them longer to make this game than it generally does. They've chosen to make feedback and showing the process a big part of how they do development. They could just as easily be Bethesda Game Studios, who haven't released an Elder Scrolls in 11 years and have shown and talked about absolutely nothing about VI.

If you find yourself getting angry, realize that it's not about them being slow or not showing the right stuff or whatever. It just shows that you would prefer not to be updated until the game is done or very nearly done.

It is not about being angry or the level of transparency it is about having an opinion and looking at what they have shared so far and judging it. BG3 development is scheduled to take just over 5 years (it will take longer). DoS2 took 2 years. That is 2.5x times longer. They have not been transparent at all apart from the EA aspect of the project and telling us about all the bells and whistles. The reality is that all this extra time is going to better graphics/textures, facial animations, hair styles, cinematics and so much other fluff. The main questline is supposedly shorter than the DoS2 one.

What they haven't told us about is any of the higher level content, most of the characters or anything about the main city (even a screenshot of the map). They give far less meaty information than Owlcat does. Give us more character stories etc. Post a 3 page set of patch notes that are mostly full of bug fixes is of 0 interest to me. Watching Swen larping was funny for the first few months but 2 years later the joke is running thin.

The writing is a massive step down from BG2. The lore is almost non-existent. In BG2 every magical item had a story about it which was often interesting and relevant to the game. Here is an actual example from BG3 of a lore for a magical weapon which I have not modified in any form: "A pointy stick. Ouch!". This is not a joke - this is the actual item description. The longest one is about 4 short sentences. In has to be this way so it can fit in the DoS style item popups!!! There is not even space for a decent backstory. The character backstories are equally weak and most are comical in their tone. If you look at the background section for each character in DoS2 you will have a good idea of what it is like in BG3. Thankfully the quests are a little bit better but sadly far too many (at least what are currently available) have a comic twist to them. The comic nature is very simplistic and full of unfunny sexual innuendo i.e. sausage style jokes. The dialogue between characters/banter is good but not memorable.

What it does best is the cinematic nature of the game. It has a great soundtrack by Borislav Slavov, who is a friend I talk to every so often so I am biased here. It captures the spirit of BG1/2 while being more complex. It is epic like what Dmitry V. Silantyev did in WotR but each song is far more distinct while still fitting together well.

Despite all my complaints about how long they are spending on the visuals they are spectacular. Wathcing the in game cinematics is a treat. I just wish they spent more time on the actual writing - which in my opinion is by far the weakest point currently in the game.

 

[Couchpotato]

Well you know what they say go big or go broke.:lol:

Swen mentioned the game has exceeded their initial goal and tripled in content since it was first developed on before Early Access. Like I said before looks to ambitious.

I hope he pulls it off as I want more games in this setting or another one.

 

[JFarrell71]

It is not about being angry or the level of transparency it is about having an opinion and looking at what they have shared so far and judging it.

Like I said, punishing them for showing stuff.

What is your opinion about Elder Scrolls VI? Thoughts on the gameplay? Graphics? Where it is even set?

No, you can't have one, but you don't know anything about it. They haven't showed anything.

They showed about 4 minutes of Starfield and people came out of the woodwork here to level all sorts of proclamations about what the game is and isn't.

Having opinions is the problem. People have too many of them, often with little to nothing to go on. Larian has chosen to show quite a bit, so people feel even more entitled to make sweeping judgments.

 

[henriquejr]

Well, i hope they get extra sales from those panels…

Cos i see them just as glorified patch notes. They have little added velue for me as a EA user would make no difference to me if they just posted a txt file with bullet points about the patch. Kinda looks like wasted money but ok…

Everything from BG3, Panels or not Panels, is glorified now. Glorified and boring. I don't even watch these videos anymore.

Hasbro, next time you license a D&D movie please find a way to give Sven a role in it.

 

[Couchpotato]

Hasbro, next time you license a D&D movie please find a way to give Sven a role in it.

Now that you say that I totally agree Swen and his studio would be perfect for a live action CG animated D&D movie. Square tried that in the past though and failed.

 

[bjon045]

Having opinions is the problem. People have too many of them, often with little to nothing to go on. Larian has chosen to show quite a bit, so people feel even more entitled to make sweeping judgments.

I'm basing them on actually playing the first Act of the game. Just like how I played the first act of Pathfinder: Kingmaker during alpha/beta. I don't see the difference.

You keep saying that they are showing a bit, but they really aren't compared to most of their contemporaries these days.

Elder Scrolls 6 (/Starfield) is obviously the odd one out. BS have their niche and they have owned it almost completely for the last few decades, it's only recently they are getting some serious challengers and other companies are even surpassing them. I wonder if the approach will continue for much longer though. Would they be bigger if they shared more/had EA/panels etc?

 

[JFarrell71]

You keep saying that they are showing a bit, but they really aren't compared to most of their contemporaries these days.

Oh really? Name some. Name some other unreleased AA or AAA RPG/adventure games that have shown off and talked about more of the game than Larian with BG3.

 

[bjon045]

I probably can't for AA/AAA and if you want to limit it to that then I would agree with you.

But if you open it up to everything else then it is a different story. What they are doing is standard for most smaller studios.

 

[JFarrell71]

I probably can't for AA/AAA and if you want to limit it to that then I would agree with you.

But if you open it up to everything else then it is a different story. What they are doing is standard for most smaller studios.

I have to limit it to AA/AAA. Partly because that's what BG3 is. It's got a pretty big team and a pretty big budget. It's no indie title.

And partly because indie studios have stuff in EA sometimes for years and years. Rimworld was a highly finished game for forever before it was released. I think Dwarf Fortress is still technically not at 1.0. So of course you see most of those games before they quote, unquote come out. Small studios need the money to finance their continued development/tinkering.

 

[JDR13]

I would say it's definitely a AAA title. I can't imagine anyone referring to this as AA.

 

[bjon045]

I am talking about games like Wrath of the Righteous, Solasta, Gamedec, ATOM etc. They all had EA and lots of information released about them.

I don't really see how it being AAA, AA, A or even indie makes a difference. I was just saying the level of information they provide is not the primary reason why some of the feedback is negative - it is the content of what they are producing. If Wrath had of the poor quality of lore that BG3 has on it's items I would of given it the same criticism. Although I admit because it is BG3 it has a much higher benchmark that it has to meet i.e. BG2 - one of the greatest cRPG's of all time.

Now if you are just talking about the numpties who complain "I paid 60 dollars I want to play the whole game" I do agree with you. Although I also sympathise with them as BG3 is becoming an out of control snowball, which Swen has admitted a few times. The scope has grown so much more than what they originally wanted to deliver.

This is a snippet from the changelog. Notice the vast majority is just fixing bugs. The actual information about the game and it's system is actually quite limited. I would say some of the games above would of actually given more info.

CHANGES AND FIXES
Crashes, Freezes, and Blockers
Can now Long Rest at camp if a companion is dead.
Fixed crash when spam-clicking ‘Go to Camp’ button and Trade window.
Fixed crash when choosing to 'do nothing' about Astarion holding blade to your throat.
Fixed crash when readying Throw action and hovering cursor over dismissed summon.
Fixed crash when killing summons holding Concentration.
Fixed crash when drinking Auntie Ethel’s potion.
Fixed crash when opening a spell container from a hotbar filter after removing that spell from the main hotbar.
Fixed black screen triggered after committing a crime and telling Zevlor you’d like to celebrate at camp.
Fixed character getting stuck if Shoved while Sleeping.
Fixed launcher entering offline mode.
Fixed crash related to Inventory UI.
Fixed crash related to having multiple Examine windows open and closing one.
Fixed crash related to FSR and Ultra Quality graphical settings.
Fixed crash related to sending weapons in the same filter slots to other characters.
Fixed bug related to controlling Us at Crash Site.
Fixed bug preventing you from starting dialogues.
Multiplayer
Fixed loading screen getting stuck after disconnecting.
Fixed crash during character selection.
Fixed crash when starting in lobby.
Fixed issue preventing clients from rejoining session after crash.*
Fixed blocker and black screen caused by Long Rest.
Fixed crash when switching companions during dialogue.
Fixed Direct Connections checkbox deselecting due to NatPunch error.
You no longer get stuck in the lobby if you join the host via invite before you’ve made a profile and if your game folder is in Documents.

 

[JFarrell71]

The entirety of Solasta or Gamedec would fit in what they've released for BG3 so far. Wrath of the Righteous didn't release any part of the game before it came out unless you were a beta tester. ATOM, really? Uh, okay.

You seem determined to be disappointed by BG3. Comparing what happens to what you decide as a fan should or has to happen is always going to end up in disappointment. None of your examples are valid.

 

[Silver]

I played some of patch 8 today. The game runs way better and I found myself very immersed because the gameplay and UI has been developed to be so much better than it was from patch 1. There were a few problems with a certain party member not following when he should that was annoying but that was the only issue I noticed. I played a druid for first time and all the RP options really adds alot to the experience. Combat was quite smooth and the items, interface, and icons all looked a lot better to me and lots more Baldur's Gatey to coin a verb.

 

[JFarrell71]

I played some of patch 8 today. The game runs way better..."

You mean from a performance standpoint? I haven't been able to get more than a few hours into the game because it runs like trash on my PC. If it's improved, I might give it another shot.

 

[Silver]

You mean from a performance standpoint? I haven't been able to get more than a few hours into the game because it runs like trash on my PC. If it's improved, I might give it another shot.

Yeah performance wise. Mind you I also adjusted my nvidia control panel settings before hand as it turns out the default options are sub-optimal.

 

[Redglyph]

[..]They have not been transparent at all apart from the EA aspect of the project and telling us about all the bells and whistles. The reality is that all this extra time is going to better graphics/textures, facial animations, hair styles, cinematics and so much other fluff. The main questline is supposedly shorter than the DoS2 one.

What they haven't told us about is any of the higher level content, most of the characters or anything about the main city (even a screenshot of the map). They give far less meaty information than Owlcat does. Give us more character stories etc. Post a 3 page set of patch notes that are mostly full of bug fixes is of 0 interest to me. Watching Swen larping was funny for the first few months but 2 years later the joke is running thin.

The writing is a massive step down from BG2. The lore is almost non-existent. [..]

But isn't that better to avoid spoiling more than the mechanics and the minimum info about the story? And Owlcat hasn't unveiled that much either, the alpha and beta were under NDA and were not even including everything. On the contrary, they keep a lot of stuff under wraps, except on the mechanics.

I agree that some of Larian's typical humour is a little heavy for me too, both in their presentation and in the game, but regarding the game I found it a great improvement over the D:OS series thankfully. I haven't played BG2, but there definitely was cheesy humour in BG1 too. I wouldn't worry too much about that, they've shown some occurrences of silly content like the salami but they're diluted in hours of gameplay. It's personal of course, you may feel different about it.

I'm not sure why you find the writing is bad. Again I can't compare to BG2 but when I played the EA there were bits of lore given by several NPCs or the narrator, and I found it rather good. Each companion has a story that seemed at least as interesting as D:OS2 if not more. I don't think it's as deep as Pathfinder though, the game has a more casual gameplay overall, but that doesn't make it bad.

 

[bjon045]

None of your examples are valid.

Not even the lore or writing bit? I guess you must not be a reader if you think that. Personally I would take the descriptive writing of BG2 over what is in BG3 any day of the week.

But yes, I was in the beta for all of those games. To be honest I don't see the difference between EA and getting Beta access as part of a kickstarter but you do you.

I'm not sure why you find the writing is bad. Again I can't compare to BG2 but when I played the EA there were bits of lore given by several NPCs or the narrator, and I found it rather good. Each companion has a story that seemed at least as interesting as D:OS2 if not more. I don't think it's as deep as Pathfinder though, the game has a more casual gameplay overall, but that doesn't make it bad.

Yes, it compares well to DoS2. It just doesn't compare to BG2 very well. Like I said I'll accept the quests are okay/solid. My main issue is all the background lore stuff that BG2 did so well i.e. item descriptions, books, scrolls etc. It's the stuff that elevates a game and makes it more immersive (for me). I loved reading about the origins of the weapons I was using etc.

It's also about how freaking long the game is taking though. On that point I do agree with JFarrel. It would of been better if they hadn't of announced it and done EA if it was going to be soooo long till they released it. 2 years+ in EA and 5 years total is just too long for a non open world game. Larian themselves have proven that you can release a quality game in 2 years. They have more than double the number of people working on BG3 and it is taking 2.5x longer. It doesn't compute for me with what I have seen in Act 1.

I am currently disappointed with what I have seen in Act 1 but of course I would love for the rest of the acts to be better but the only thing lingering in my mind is previous larian games always have the best starts and weak final acts.

 

[Redglyph]

Yes, it compares well to DoS2. It just doesn't compare to BG2 very well. Like I said I'll accept the quests are okay/solid. My main issue is all the background lore stuff that BG2 did so well i.e. item descriptions, books, scrolls etc. It's the stuff that elevates a game and makes it more immersive (for me). I loved reading about the origins of the weapons I was using etc.

It's also about how freaking long the game is taking though. On that point I do agree with JFarrel. It would of been better if they hadn't of announced it and done EA if it was going to be soooo long till they released it. 2 years+ in EA and 5 years total is just too long for a non open world game. Larian themselves have proven that you can release a quality game in 2 years. They have more than double the number of people working on BG3 and it is taking 2.5x longer. It doesn't compute for me with what I have seen in Act 1.

I am currently disappointed with what I have seen in Act 1 but of course I would love for the rest of the acts to be better but the only thing lingering in my mind is previous larian games always have the best starts and weak final acts.

I think I'm not too far from the truth by assuming BG2 is the same level of lore and story as the 2nd Pathfinder. So I agree there's a gap, but for me it's just two different styles and we should never expect Larian to go so deep as having walls of lore text.

They're still providing more than the average game IMO, with long quality dialogues (and fully voiced), but it's easy to get the impression there's not so much because there's a lot to explore and long TB combats which take a lot of time in comparison.

Yeah it's long. It must be a massive game, but we'll only know how much there is once it's released. I'm not sure to enjoy such long games, to be honest. I'd rather have them release maybe 2 finished acts, then provide new "seasons" for the rest, but if they need the time to create all the classes and companions, it's not possible. And many players probably want to be able to jump in and play for hundreds of hours so that would not be very popular.

 

[Nereida]

These threads sure grab a lot of traction and unreadable walls of text from people who do not seem to care about the game or the updates.

Kudos to Larian for keeping their game in the conversation, even by those who are looking for every excuse to hate them. I'm not sure that's good for the game, but I have no marketing skills whatsoever, so we'll have to see where they land at the end of it.

Personally, I just continue to chill enjoying the so many other games that are already fully released, ignoring that the EA is even a thing so I can fully enjoy the final product, free of bias and toxicity. Everything I hear from neutral, honest reviewers is that the game is getting better and better, both in performance and storytelling, so the hype is slowly ramping up.