Black Geyser - Play with a custom Party

[lackblogger]

I have no doubt a lot of these topics get lost in translation. Is english your first language?

 

[JFarrell71]

Nope, this wasn't a comparing of orange vs apple situation. What I detailed is that "more worth buying" implies "higher quality" in most (but not all) cases. Just like judicial system doesn't condemn the innocent ones in most (but not all) cases.

Do you understand that "more worth buying" and "deemed worth buying by more people" is not the same thing?

 

[bjon045]

This post isn't targeting anyone specific, more the general direction of the discussion. When the discussion moves to being about language it probably isn't going to get back on track anytime soon

The topic was about a patch that objectively improves the game for some people i.e. being able to customise your party fully. Even if you dislike a game I don't see how bashing something that improves something that you don't currently like as being a good use of anyone's time. Personally, even a game like Dungeon Lords, which was quite possibly one of the worst games I have ever played on release moved from being a stinking turd to a polished turd through a whole lot of patching. How can it be a bad thing if a game gets gradually better?

Maybe focus the discussion on whether you think this patch is good/bad/worthwhile etc?

 

[Redglyph]

Regarding your argument whether you can compare Steam scores: yes you can, if you assume them as binary (true or false). There are many statistical tests for this purpose some of which are explained here.

That was courageous! Thanks for taking the time.

Would you agree though that the "recommendation" nature of the score makes it quite dependent on the price? The reviews confirm that beyond any doubt. So yes, it's possible to compare apples and bananas at the market price of the day (1 point on the curve).

Anyway, the debate on the scores is interesting but as @bjon045 says, maybe it's time to move that elsewhere, sorry if I made a few lengthy posts to rectify some wrong thinking.


I'm still remotely curious about Black Geyser but I've never been really attracted to it, and seeing others' comments here doesn't improve my motivation, no matter how many patches it receives. Maybe I'll buy it once I have finished all the other games, one day when it's in the sale.

Talking about comparison, I found that PoE2 was superbly implemented but I've never found the motivation to finish the game. So quality isn't everything.

 

[largh]

Would you agree though that the "recommendation" nature of the score makes it quite dependent on the price? The reviews confirm that beyond any doubt. So yes, it's possible to compare apples and bananas at the market price of the day (1 point on the curve).

Definitely. Statistical tests are just algorithms. They always have assumptions and one of them is that data are not biased, which they obviously always are. I am not a social scientist but I have understood that how you pose the question will greatly influence the outcome of an opinion bases survey. I'd think that Metacritic or similar comparison of professional reviews would be less biased than gamer opinions as so many things unrelated to the quality of the product tend to influence those.

 

[Centaur]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that a real-life system has interdependent variables and "everything depends on everything else" (my wife has a degree in theoretical physics BTW). A model, be it maths, physics or other, always represents an aspect of reality only. Because reality cannot be represented fully.

So, yeah, most stuff you guys and girls wrote here about Steam rating system complexity is true. Still, sometimes we need to simplify reality or even complex models for our decisions.

We make decisions heuristically, in many, many cases.

When you are forced to decide "which is higher quality" (a gun is pointed to your head to do so, and your answer matters), then a game with a 27% review score vs a game with a 70% review score on Steam can be compared. You will say that 27% is weaker quality in general. (Assuming you don't know anything about the games and you are not allowed to read more info on them.)

You may be wrong, because there can be a number of reasons why the 27% one is higher quality after all. It might be a victim of review bombing, for instance. Still, you are going to say that this is the weaker quality game.

 

[Morrandir]

I used to like this game but at this point I am so annoyed at the pile of BS going around it's left a bad after taste.

Read less, play more!

 

[Morrandir]

@Centaur , you're right, but this discussion derailed because you took a joking comment about PoE being "10-15x better" than BG literal and serious. There wouldn't be as much walls of text in this thread if you had just said that you like BG better than PoE.
I mean, I guess we all know that video games can hardly be rated in an objective manner, and of course our individual preferences often are in contradiction to scores from Steam or otherwise.

For the record, I was indeed able to finish PoE 1+2 and rated them 8.0 and 8.5 on my personal fun scale. And I'll finish BG and if nothing unexpected happens with the game, my rating will be something like 7.5.

 

[Centaur]

@Centaur , you're right, but this discussion derailed because you took a joking comment about PoE being "10-15x better" than BG literal and serious. There wouldn't be as much walls of text in this thread if you had just said that you like BG better than PoE.
I mean, I guess we all know that video games can hardly be rated in an objective manner, and of course our individual preferences often are in contradiction to scores from Steam or otherwise.

For the record, I was indeed able to finish PoE 1+2 and rated them 8.0 and 8.5 on my personal fun scale. And I'll finish BG and if nothing unexpected happens with the game, my rating will be something like 7.5.

If this was the case, i.e. everybody understood the joke with 10-15x except me, then I don't think some users would have started proving how it is true, because the rating system of Steam is bad etc. There were long walls of text trying to prove that yes, they can be rated in an objective manner. So I'm happy I caused such a big debate here (it was constructive debate after all).

 

[Pladio]

Can we please stop with personal attacks ?
I'm just going to keep deleting them as they just end up escalating and serve no purpose.