CRPG Analyzer: A checklist for computer role-playing games

[HiddenX]

@Nameless one - done!

Current Extra List V0.5 (NtH) & (BtH) elements:

(still in discussion)

Nice to Have (NtH) elements:

Character Development
N.C01) (NtH) gain ranks, achievements, society status, reputation
N.C02) (NtH) character can be customized during character creation
N.C03) (NtH) choose profession, race
N.C04) (NtH) build equipment, alchemy
N.C05) (NtH) freedom in character development, i.e. no fixed classes
N.C06) (NtH) character development choices have an impact on gameplay
N.C07) (NtH) unique items are in the game or can be made
N.C08) (NtH) you have to choose traits
N.C09) (NtH) you can choose an alignment (good, evil …)


Exploration
N.E01) (NtH) you can find and recruit new party members
N.E02) (NtH) you can interact with items (combine or use for more than one purpose)
N.E03) (NtH) there are few artificial borders, you can reasonably go where you want
N.E04) (NtH) you can follow different paths to reach a goal
N.E05) (NtH) trading is balanced
N.E06) (NtH) looting makes sense (no shield on a dead wolf)
N.E07) (NtH) it is rewarding to explore the last inch of the gameworld
N.E08) (NtH) you can disaggregate items in raw materials
N.E09) (NtH) combat is balanced
N.E10) (NtH) combat works with multiple resistances (fire, ice, poison,…)
N.E11) (NtH) many different enemies with different tactics are in the gameworld
N.E12) (NtH) tactical combat options are available
N.E13) (NtH) enemy AI is good
N.E14) (NtH) combat free solutions are possible (bribe, flatter, intimidate…)


Story
N.S01) (NtH) Riddles are implemented
N.S02) (NtH) you can choose allies, enemies
N.S03) (NtH) predefined context, faction rules, laws, history… is written
N.S04) (NtH) you can reasonably do what you want when you want to do it (quest order doesn't matter much)
N.S05) (NtH) you can talk with NPCs about different topics
N.S06) (NtH) quests can be solved in more than one way
N.S07) (NtH) quests depend on each other
N.S08) (NtH) some quests rule others out (=> more than one walktrough is necessary to see all)
N.S09) (NtH) more than one game ending
N.S10) (NtH) dialog options are depending on stats, skills, reputation, alignment…
N.S11) (NtH) dialog is fleshed out
N.S12) (NtH) NPCs have schedules


Bad to Have (BtH) elements:

Character
B.C01) (BtH) Auto-Leveling

Exploration
B.E01) (BtH) Quest Markers
B.E02) (BtH) Hand Holding
B.E03) (BtH) to progress your characters repetitive grinding battles/actions are necessary
B.E04) (BtH) Loot overload -> every battle leads to tons of loot (unrealistic)

Story
B.S01) (BtH) pre-selected choice options

 

[Arhu]

Don't have the time yet to think in-depth about the NtH list. Will do so later.


King's Bounty: CRPG
Diablo: CRPG with modifier, fails at Story SH's
Trine: no CRPG, fails at E3 and S2 (no NPCs)
Dreamfall: no CRPG (fails at C2 and C3) —> Adventure
Mass Effect: CRPG
Indigo Prophecy (Fahrenheit): no CRPG, fails at C2 and C3 —> Adventure
Wizardry 8: CRPG

Jagged Alliance 2, Bioshock, Thief, Metal Gear Solid, STALKER: (anyone please try with v0.5)


Conventional wisdom helds that King's Bounty is a Strategy CRPG (not a pure CRPG), Diablo an Action CRPG, Jagged Alliance 2 a Tactical CRPG, STALKER a Shooter CRPG. I can't comment on JA2/Stalker, since my memory is too fuzzy, but at least King's Bounty being labeled a CRPG without modifier in v0.5 means that we probably need to start tackling Combat, which we so far neglected, in order to make better statements on different sub-genres.

What exactly makes King's Bounty a Strategy-CRPG? What distinguishes it and other sub-genres from Wizardry 8, which had a whole lot of combat, too?

Lastly, Thief was called a "Sneaker", not a CRPG at all. Why then was it so liked among CRP-gamers? Was it something about the combat or lack thereof? Or the amount of careful thinking and planning required? The latter we could perhaps include as SH or NtH somewhere.


Combat

We could include Combat as some kind of meta category, like Perspective, Playstyle, Difficulty etc. from the old CRPG-meter. Some brainstorming …

Technical: turn based, turn based with pause, realtime
Pace: slow, medium, fast
Amount of combat gameplay compared to Story gameplay: high, medium, low
Planning and Thinking required during combat: lots, medium, little
Impact of character stats/skills on combat: high, medium, low

Or we could add Combat as a fourth category, but only with SH and/or NtH.

 

[Arhu]

The NtH list can be split nicely into smaller chunks. Let's call them choice, interdependence, interactivity, difficulty and immersion.

Choice: Options to choose from; includes "freedom".
Interdependence: The two other categories are affected; includes "consequence"
Interactivity: you can "physically" interact with something
Difficulty: thinking and planning is required
Immersion: means plausibility and balance


So here's an attempt at categorizing Nice-to-Have's. Combat was under "Exploration". I'm not sure it fits there. I'd put it in its own meta category. I added 1 or 2 more points, i.e. those under Difficulty.

Character Development

• Choice
  • N.C02) (NtH) character can be customized during character creation
  • N.C05) (NtH) freedom in character development, i.e. no fixed classes
  • N.C03) (NtH) choose profession, race
  • N.C08) (NtH) you have to choose traits
  • N.C09) (NtH) you can choose an alignment (good, evil …)
• Interdependence
  • N.C01) (NtH) gain ranks, achievements, society status, reputation
    N.C06) (NtH) character development choices have an impact on gameplay
• Interactivity
  • N.C04) (NtH) build equipment, alchemy
    N.C07) (NtH) unique items are in the game or can be made
• Difficulty
  • N.C10) (NtH) character development requires careful thought and planning
• Immersion
  • ?

Exploration

• Choice
  • N.E04) (NtH) you can follow different paths to reach a goal
  • N.E03) (NtH) there are few artificial borders, you can reasonably go where you want
• Interdependence
  • N.E01) (NtH) you can find and recruit new party members
  • N.E07) (NtH) it is rewarding to explore the last inch of the gameworld
• Interactivity
  • N.E02) (NtH) you can interact with items (combine or use for more than one purpose)
  • N.E08) (NtH) you can disaggregate items in raw materials
• Difficulty
  • N.E15) (NtH) You may have to think or plan to progress or overcome obstacles
• Immersion
  • N.E05) (NtH) trading is balanced
  • N.E06) (NtH) looting makes sense (no shield on a dead wolf)
  • N.E09) (NtH) combat is balanced

Story

• Choice
  • N.S04) (NtH) you can reasonably do what you want when you want to do it (quest order doesn't matter much)
  • N.S02) (NtH) you can choose allies, enemies
  • N.S06) (NtH) quests can be solved in more than one way
  • N.S08) (NtH) some quests rule others out (=> more than one walktrough is necessary to see all)
• Interdependence
  • N.S10) (NtH) dialog options are depending on stats, skills, reputation, alignment…
• Interactivity
  • N.S05) (NtH) you can talk with NPCs about different topics
• Difficulty
  • N.S01) (NtH) Riddles are implemented
• Immersion
  • N.S03) (NtH) predefined context, faction rules, laws, history… is written
  • N.S07) (NtH) quests depend on each other
  • N.S09) (NtH) more than one game ending
  • N.S11) (NtH) dialog is fleshed out
  • N.S12) (NtH) NPCs have schedules

Combat (Meta)

• N.E10) (NtH) combat works with multiple resistances (fire, ice, poison,…)
• N.E11) (NtH) many different enemies with different tactics are in the gameworld
• N.E12) (NtH) tactical combat options are available
• N.E13) (NtH) enemy AI is good
• N.E14) (NtH) combat free solutions are possible (bribe, flatter, intimidate…)

 

[HiddenX]

I think we should introduce Combat as a non defining category (SH), (NtH), (Tag) only - no (MH). The main characteristic of Strategy CRPGs is hiring/managing additional troops. The main characteristic of Action CRPGs is real time combat. The main characteristic of Tactical CRPGs is the possibility to work with multiple sqads.

Definition of a CRPG (V0.6)

A CRPG is a computer game that fulfills these criterions:

(MH) = Must Have: these criterions have to be fulfilled, if not the game is no CRPG
(SH) = Should Have: these criterions have to be fulfilled too, if not you have to qualify the CRPG. Example: CRPG, no interactive story (=Sandbox CRPG)
(NtH) = Nice to Have: omitted here, still in discussion, just for further info
(Tag) - The CRPG gets additional qualifiers

Character Development
C1) (MH) you can create or chose and control one or more characters
C2) (MH) you can develop your party (stats and/or skills,…) by questing
C3) (MH) you can equip and enhance your characters with items you acquire

Exploration
E1) (MH) by exploring the gameworld you can find new loacations
E2) (MH) you can find items
E3) (MH) you can find NPCs
E4) (SH) you can manipulate the gameworld in some way (levers, buttons,…)
E5) (SH) the gameworld can affect your party (weather, traps, closed doors, …)

Story
S1) (MH) you can progress through a story
S2) (MH) you can interact with NPCs
S3) (MH) you can follow quests (at least one main quest)
S5) (SH) the story is interactive
S6) (SH) you can make choices
S7) (SH) your choices have consequences

Combat
F1) (Tag) the game features no combat -> Non Combat CRPG
F2) (Tag) the combat is real time without pause -> Action CRPG
F3) (Tag) additional troop (not your party) management available -> Strategic CRPG
F4) (Tag) multiple squads (party splitting) possible -> Tactical CRPG
F5) (Tag) combat is possible, avoiding it with stealth is better -> Sneaker CRPG
______
F=Fight

 

[HiddenX]

Jagged Alliance 2

Definition of a CRPG (V0.6)

A CRPG is a computer game that fulfills these criterions:

(MH) = Must Have: these criterions have to be fulfilled, if not the game is no CRPG
(SH) = Should Have: these criterions have to be fulfilled too, if not you have to qualify the CRPG. Example: CRPG, no interactive story (=Sandbox CRPG)
(NtH) = Nice to Have: omitted here, still in discussion, just for further info
(Tag) - The CRPG gets additional qualifiers

Character Development
C1) (MH) you can create or chose and control one or more characters yes
C2) (MH) you can develop your party (stats and/or skills,…) by questing yes
C3) (MH) you can equip and enhance your characters with items you acquire yes

Exploration
E1) (MH) by exploring the gameworld you can find new loacations yes
E2) (MH) you can find items yes
E3) (MH) you can find NPCs yes
E4) (SH) you can manipulate the gameworld in some way (levers, buttons,…) yes
E5) (SH) the gameworld can affect your party (weather, traps, closed doors, …) yes

Story
S1) (MH) you can progress through a story yes
S2) (MH) you can interact with NPCs yes
S3) (MH) you can follow quests (at least one main quest) yes
S5) (SH) the story is interactive yes
S6) (SH) you can make choices yes
S7) (SH) your choices have consequences yes

Combat
F1) (Tag) the game features no combat -> Non Combat CRPG, no
F2) (Tag) the combat is real time without pause-> Action CRPG , no, turn based
F3) (Tag) additional troop (not your party) management available -> Strategic CRPG, yes , you have to build up troops in towns
F4) (Tag) multiple squads (party splitting) possible -> Tactical CRPG, yes, party splitting into 3 squads possible
F5) (Tag) combat is possible, avoiding it with stealth is better -> Sneaker CRPG, no

JA2 is a strategic and tactical CRPG

Sirtech's masterpiece JA2 really has everything: roleplaying, huge free open world, choices with consequences, challenging tactical, turn based and strategic combat, lots of items, weapons, items can be combined, memorable characters & NPCs… a CRPG dream.

 

[Arhu]

v0.6 looks pretty good to me so far.

Should we differentiate between Action-RPG and Shooter-RPG?

What if Divine Divinity didn't have a pause option during combat, would we simply call it an Action-RPG? Borderline, yes, as it was always advertised as a marriage of Diablo with Baldur's Gate. Guess we can always add additional modifiers based on the NtH's. So if Divinity had real-time-combat, it would probably come out as something like "Deep Action-RPG".

Need more tests for different games. Alrik? Anyone?

edit: we should probably clarify realtime: "realtime without pause"

 

[HiddenX]

You can put in as many tags as you like, for example:

Combat
(Tag) combat is turn based-> turn based CRPG

But we should not establish too much new tags.
Exotic things are better flagged with (NtH).

PS:
I meant "realtime without pause" -> fixed

 

[Nameless one]

Let's test Bastion since it borderlines CRPG.

Character Development
C1) (MH) you can create or chose and control one or more characters-no
C2) (MH) you can develop your party (stats and/or skills,…) by questing- yes
C3) (MH) you can equip and enhance your characters with items you acquire- yes

Exploration
E1) (MH) by exploring the gameworld you can find new loacations-no locations open with progress of main quest
E2) (MH) you can find items- yes
E3) (MH) you can find NPCs- yes
E4) (SH) you can manipulate the gameworld in some way (levers, buttons,…)-yes
E5) (SH) the gameworld can affect your party (weather, traps, closed doors, …)-no

Story
S1) (MH) you can progress through a story- yes
S2) (MH) you can interact with NPCs- yes
S3) (MH) you can follow quests (at least one main quest)- yes
S5) (SH) the story is interactive- no I think not, but narator directly comments some of players actions.
S6) (SH) you can make choices- yes but only near the end
S7) (SH) your choices have consequences- yes

So Bastion isn't CRPG, it fails C1 and E1

 

[HiddenX]

You can't chose a character in Bastion?

So it is a pre-defined character like in Gothic - how should we handle this?

C1) (MH) you can control one or more characters (=party)
C2) (MH) you can develop your party (stats and/or skills,…) by questing
C3) (MH) you can equip and enhance your characters with items you acquire
C4) (SH) you can create or chose your characters

???

 

[Nameless one]

You can't chose a character in Bastion?

There is no character creation at all, neither there is stat system for character,wepons have their stats that can be upgraded(there is choice between 2 upgrades on each level of weapon max level for each weapon is 5) ,there is character leveling but it's rudimentary.

 

[HiddenX]

Then Bastion is clearly more a linear Action Adventure than CPRG.

Do you agree - or should it be identified as CRPG?

 

[Nameless one]

Then Bastion is clearly more a linear Action Adventure than CPRG.

Yup, I wanted to test system on game that is near RPG border but on other side for curiosity sake.

 

[HiddenX]

Cool - that are the games we need to test the current version.

 

[Nameless one]

FTL another game on borderline.

Character Development
C1) (MH) you can create or chose and control one or more characters-yes
C2) (MH) you can develop your party (stats and/or skills,…) by questing -yes
C3) (MH) you can equip and enhance your characters with items you acquire- yes

Exploration
E1) (MH) by exploring the gameworld you can find new loacations- yes
E2) (MH) you can find items- yes
E3) (MH) you can find NPCs- yes
E4) (SH) you can manipulate the gameworld in some way (levers, buttons,…)- no
E5) (SH) the gameworld can affect your party (weather, traps, closed doors, …)-yes

Story
S1) (MH) you can progress through a story- yes but this is debatable since story is pretty simplistic but it have 2 quests in main quest line
S2) (MH) you can interact with NPCs- yes
S3) (MH) you can follow quests (at least one main quest)-yes
S5) (SH) the story is interactive-no
S6) (SH) you can make choices-yes
S7) (SH) your choices have consequences-yes

Edit:Turns out FLT is CRPG after all.

 

[HiddenX]

I have the game - but haven't played it yet.

A simple story is still a story

Most older CRPGs have a main story/quest like this: find the 5 pieces of the legendary staff of X.

 

[Wulf]

Game start character creation or generation is not a necessity for a RPG but character progression within the game is a 'Must Have" to qualify because the stat increase gained proves that the player character/s have played a role to effect the improvement progress. Gothic being a typical example.

 

[HiddenX]

okay - predefined characters should not be a problem if they can developed later on.
For true roleplaying party creation is great - so it is a (SH) now.

Definition of a CRPG (V0.7)

A CRPG is a computer game that fulfills these criterions:

(MH) = Must Have: these criterions have to be fulfilled, if not the game is no CRPG
(SH) = Should Have: these criterions have to be fulfilled too, if not you have to qualify the CRPG. Example: CRPG, no interactive story (=Sandbox CRPG)
(NtH) = Nice to Have: omitted here, still in discussion, just for further info
(Tag) - The CRPG gets additional qualifiers

Character Development
C1) (MH) you can control one or more characters (=party)
C2) (MH) you can develop your party (stats and/or skills,…) by questing
C3) (MH) you can equip and enhance your characters with items you acquire
C4) (SH) you can create your party

Exploration
E1) (MH) by exploring the gameworld you can find new loacations
E2) (MH) you can find items
E3) (MH) you can find NPCs
E4) (SH) you can manipulate the gameworld in some way (levers, buttons,…)
E5) (SH) the gameworld can affect your party (weather, traps, closed doors, …)

Story
S1) (MH) you can progress through a story
S2) (MH) you can interact with NPCs
S3) (MH) you can follow quests (at least one main quest)
S5) (SH) the story is interactive
S6) (SH) you can make choices
S7) (SH) your choices have consequences

Combat
F1) (Tag) the game features no combat -> Non Combat CRPG
F2) (Tag) the combat is real time without pause -> Action CRPG
F3) (Tag) additional troop (not your party) management available -> Strategic CRPG
F4) (Tag) multiple squads (party splitting) possible -> Tactical CRPG
F5) (Tag) combat is possible, avoiding it with stealth is better -> Sneaker CRPG
______
F=Fight


PS:
is S5 <=> S6 and S7 ? I think so …
choices with consequences <=> interactive story
we could eliminate S5, what do you think, CRPG experts?

 

[Arhu]

Story
S1) (MH) you can progress through a story
S2) (MH) you can interact with NPCs
S3) (MH) you can follow quests (at least one main quest)
S5) (SH) the story is interactive
S6) (SH) you can make choices
S7) (SH) your choices have consequences

is S5 <=> S6 and S7 ? I think so …
choices with consequences <=> interactive story
we could eliminate S5, what do you think, CRPG experts?

Since much of the story presentation relies on interaction with NPCs (S2), I see S5 more as something like "real dialogues", i.e. conversations. In that sense, S2 and S5-S7 build on each other:

S2) (MH) you can interact with NPCs
S5) (SH) you can have conversations with NPCs
S6) (SH) you can make choices in those conversations or in the story
S7) (SH) your choices have consequences

A related NtH we have is "N.S11) (NtH) dialog is fleshed out", which basically means "you can have 'longer' conversations" (?)

—————————

VtM: Bloodlines and Deus Ex would be labeled "Action-RPG" now due to the realtime combat tag. Doesn't feel right. There's a big gap between those and Diablo IMHO. Maybe we should apply the Action-RPG tag only to those realtime games that don't allow the circumvention of fights by talking / sneaking / hacking, because those are by definition not "all action".

 

[HiddenX]

I don't see the tag "Action CRPG" so negative - Gothic is one, too

Deus Ex would be an Action Sneaker CRPG.

There is a (NtH) combat free solutions are possible (bribe, flatter, intimidate…)
I could to make it a (SH) under Combat, then, if a game fails, you have to comment on it.
Many CRPGs have no combat free solutions or alternate pathes to avoid combat, so we would have to comment a lot.

 

[Arhu]

I tried out the Nice-to-Have list to locate problems and unclear wording. Didn't have time to analyze them yet though.


Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodliens

Nice-to-Haves

Character Development (6/10)

• Choice (2/5)
  • N.C02) (NtH) character can be customized during character creation yes
  • N.C05) (NtH) freedom in character development, i.e. no fixed classes no Clans (classes) are fixed.
  • N.C03) (NtH) choose profession, race no
  • N.C08) (NtH) you have to choose traits yes — You can choose traits.
  • N.C09) (NtH) you can choose an alignment (good, evil …) no
• Interdependence (2/2)
  • N.C01) (NtH) gain ranks, achievements, society status, reputation yes? — You can join factions. Does that count?
  • N.C06) (NtH) character development choices have an impact on gameplay yes
• Interactivity (1/2)
  • N.C04) (NtH) build equipment, alchemy no
  • N.C07) (NtH) unique items are in the game or can be made yes
• Difficulty (1/1)
  • N.C10) (NtH) character development requires careful thought and planning yes
• Immersion (/)
  • ?

Exploration (6/10)

• Choice (1.5/2)
  • N.E04) (NtH) you can follow different paths to reach a goal yes
  • N.E03) (NtH) there are few artificial borders, you can reasonably go where you want no? yes? — there are hubs, but within those you're relatively free. May need to split this up
• Interdependence (0.5/2)
  • N.E01) (NtH) you can find and recruit new party members no — at least not really (vanilla)
  • N.E07) (NtH) it is rewarding to explore the last inch of the gameworld yes/no — not sure
• Interactivity (0/2)
  • N.E02) (NtH) you can interact with items (combine or use for more than one purpose) no
  • N.E08) (NtH) you can disaggregate items in raw materials no
• Difficulty (1/1)
  • N.E15) (NtH) You may have to think or plan to progress or overcome obstacles yes — if you follow a non-violent path
• Immersion (3/3)
  • N.E05) (NtH) trading is balanced yes
  • N.E06) (NtH) looting makes sense (no shield on a dead wolf) yes
  • N.E09) (NtH) combat is balanced yes

Story (10.5/12)

• Choice (3.5/4)
  • N.S04) (NtH) you can reasonably do what you want when you want to do it (quest order doesn't matter much) yes — at least in the case of subquests
  • N.S02) (NtH) you can choose allies, enemies ?
  • N.S06) (NtH) quests can be solved in more than one way yes
  • N.S08) (NtH) some quests rule others out (=> more than one walktrough is necessary to see all) yes
• Interdependence (1/1)
  • N.S10) (NtH) dialog options are depending on stats, skills, reputation, alignment… yes
• Interactivity (1/1)
  • N.S05) (NtH) you can talk with NPCs about different topics yes
• Difficulty (1/1)
  • N.S01) (NtH) Riddles are implemented yes
• Immersion (4/5)
  • N.S03) (NtH) predefined context, faction rules, laws, history… is written yes (diverse clan backgrounds)
  • N.S07) (NtH) quests depend on each other yes
  • N.S09) (NtH) more than one game ending yes
  • N.S11) (NtH) dialog is fleshed out yes
  • N.S12) (NtH) NPCs have schedules no

Combat (Meta) (4/5)

• N.E10) (NtH) combat works with multiple resistances (fire, ice, poison,…) yes
• N.E11) (NtH) many different enemies with different tactics are in the gameworld yes
• N.E12) (NtH) tactical combat options are available no?
• N.E13) (NtH) enemy AI is good yes
• N.E14) (NtH) combat free solutions are possible (bribe, flatter, intimidate…) yes

Summary of Nice-to-Have's:

Character Development: 6/10
Exploration: 6/10
Story: 10.5/12
==================
Overall: 22.5/32 = 70%