ELEX - Gameplay Demo

[Deleted User]

I watched Risen 3 review some days ago and author shared same sentiment I have about PB:

They simply don't know what made Gothic 1/2 great games, it just happened somehow
In later games they are all about making huge game worlds and joining factions, like those two things are most important for winning formula!

They invented Gothic, so I think they know. They tried different things in Risen 2 and 3, got some backlash and ELEX stands to correct that. And Risen 2 and 3 still had a large amount of the Gothic formula. Just not as much as earlier games. PB has already stated that ELEX is more Gothic/Gothic III than anything Risen.

 

[Zogar Sag]

They invented Gothic, so I think they know. They tried different things in Risen 2 and 3, got some backlash and ELEX stands to correct that. And Risen 2 and 3 still had a large amount of the Gothic formula. Just not as much as earlier games. PB has already stated that ELEX is more Gothic/Gothic III than anything Risen.

Im not sure, but is there any people left from Gothics 1/2 in BP team?
I fell in love with Gothic 1/2 because it was harsh and living world. I still remember how I was beaten at the gates of Old camp and guard took all my belongings. It was something wow! Never seen, felt that in any game before and after.
PB lost all that in G3 and Risen series, so I doubt they can create something like that ever again - as I said now it is only about huge maps and factions, while the rest is your standard mediocre RPG.

 

[Deleted User]

Im not sure, but is there any people left from Gothics 1/2 in BP team?
I fell in love with Gothic 1/2 because it was harsh and living world. I still remember how I was beaten at the gates of Old camp and guard took all my belongings. It was something wow! Never seen, felt that in any game before and after.
PB lost all that in G3 and Risen series, so I doubt they can create something like that ever again - as I said now it is only about huge maps and factions, while the rest is your standard mediocre RPG.

I don't really agree with that. Risen 1 has a ton of Gothic 1/2, and Risen 2 and 3 still have a lot of that design as well. I'm not going to outline every single aspect of the Gothic formula from R2 and R3, but they are certainly there.

Bjorn Pankratz, Micheal Hoge, 2 of the biggest and most important behind Gothic as I'm aware are still there at PB. I don't know about anyone else because I don't follow them at that level, but I've heard there are others, too.

 

[TomRon]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I liked Risen well enough, but the scope was a lot smaller than the Gothics. Played Risen 2 last year and guess I liked that one too, and Risen 3 is in my library waiting to get on top of the pipeline. What I can say is I remember more things from Gothic than from Risen although I played Risen much more recently. I certainly hope Elex succeeds in going past the "like" stage.

 

[Zogar Sag]

I don't really agree with that. Risen 1 has a ton of Gothic 1/2, and Risen 2 and 3 still have a lot of that design as well.

For me G3 and Risen series were like Gothic 1/2 lite - sure they were fun games and had that Gothic feeling, but something was lost and I don't believe PB can get it back anymore, which is sad.

But then again tastes differ and possibly for you there were different things which made Gothic great than how it was for me, so no problem!

 

[Deleted User]

There will never be another Gothic 1 or 2. Ever. Even if they copied those games exactly, times have moved on and there are other factors that will make new games seem like they aren't as good.

Risen 1, for me, is a great RPG. Risen 2 and 3 I enjoyed, not as great, but still better than most other RPGs nowadays as they have some of the Gothic formula I like. They've said ELEX is going to be more Gothic than Risen, so we'll see.

But it's always going to be an uphill battle after you make a couple of classics years ago. There's nothing like the first time.

 

[NewDArt]

ogression in Bethesda games has been nonexistent since Oblivion, since the world scales along with you there was never a sense of actually getting stronger in my opinion. So for me PB would be the best here, since they do the opposite, no scaling at all.

Oh, I don't really agree with that. Progression, to me, is about character evolution - meaning the expansion of my arsenal as well as a satisfying power curve. It's really about getting more toys and options during combat - than strictly becoming more powerful.

You could take any well-balanced RPG and argue that you're not really getting stronger in some ways - because you meet ever tougher monsters on your way that resets your power level. Of course, you can go back and beat up the ones that used to present problems - but who really does that?

Oblivion did handle scaling a bit too extreme for my tastes - and it's true that power wasn't felt that much. Also, Morrowind was supremely boring in terms of the arsenal and toys - at least as a non-mage.

Skyrim does have better scaling - and Fallout 4 even more so. I definitely feel my characters getting stronger as I progress.

PB has the best power curve - but they can't match Bethesda (at all) in terms of toys and interesting loot. CDPR is even more boring, frankly.

 

[NewDArt]

Well, if you look at Gothic III, considering it is unfinished, it's a marvel what they actually were able to do. I just made it to the second town in the game and the scope of the game is huge, and so far it's quite interesting to explore.

I love Gothic 3 - because it's PB and it's Gothic - but it's very weak in terms of exploration. The world is full of randomized loot and nothing much to find that's unique or interesting, except for the vistas and a few cool towns.

So, I actually consider Gothic 3 a very bad sign if ELEX is bigger. But at least they've said loot is hand-placed - so there's that.

I also just finished Gothic II NotR, and it took me 91 hours to beat. I went into that game thinking it was going to be some small, almost story-focused RPG, and was blown away later by how much content it actually had. I mean, they have things in that game that probably less than 5% of people would even see or know is there on a first playthrough, let alone all the other stuff that I must have missed.

They also did some very weird stuff, like NPCs saying little quips here and there based on where you were at in the story, but in areas you didn't even have to return to or check in on to even see/hear what they had to say. Or NPCs you may never have thought to talk to again suddenly offering different things every chapter, whether quests, items or some new dialogue and reason to chat with them. Quite a bit of different dialogue based on how you handled situations, too. Day/night cycle + NPC scripts for an RPG in 2002. It's amazing what they were able to accomplish with that game, IMO.

Risen 2 and 3, while good RPGs, were a bit of a step back for me, but PB is saying all the right things as to how they are really going all out for ELEX and fixing what their fans said they did wrong in the last 2 Risens.

Gothic 2 was great, definitely. But it was also much, much smaller than Gothic 3 in terms of land-mass. That's why they could fill it up so well

 

[Deleted User]

If you noticed, I said what they managed to do with Gothic III considering the game was unfinished. I don't know if this next part is true or not, but I imagine a lot of the loot and chests in the game were supposed to have hand-placed loot, for starters, but it was never finished.

But I don't agree that G3 exploration isn't good. I'm finding it pretty interesting, but the loot is an issue at times. It's not G2, but that style shows a lot of promise if they can improve it with ELEX.

But yes, ELEX will have 100% hand-placed everything, according to PB. With loot directly reflecting the difficulty of finding it/earning it.

Gothic II was smaller, but they maximized that space 3 times over. And while Khorinis/Jharkendar/The Valley of Mines are not huge, they are plenty big enough, and they make up for it with density and the way they are built. The game felt big, bigger than I expected which was my point. But yes, smaller than G3, obviously.

 

[NewDArt]

Yes, I know G3 was unfinished. Why? Because it was bigger than PB could handle at the time

That's kinda the reason I'm a little worried.

But I'm probably a little more sceptical than you in general Fluent

 

[TomRon]

Oh, I don't really agree with that. Progression, to me, is about character evolution - meaning the expansion of my arsenal as well as a satisfying power curve.

I can respect that opinion, but to me in order to really feel more powerful I also have to feel weak. I think MMX handled it well, with monsters that would simply crush you if you went in to early but were later beatable. I understand if course that you can't really compare the scope between MMX and Skyrim though, but I felt the Gothics as well as other MM and the original Fallout titles handled it better than Skyrim or newer Fallouts (haven't played 4 though). "Go where you want" is awesome, but for me it's even better if it's "Go where you want but expect to die"… That gives sneaking a whole new dimension too, where you can go for loot that's awesome but you'll have a hard time reaching it since all the monsters will one shot you.

We all have different ideas of fun.

 

[Deleted User]

Yes, I know G3 was unfinished. Why? Because it was bigger than PB could handle at the time

That's kinda the reason I'm a little worried.

But I'm probably a little more sceptical than you in general Fluent

Well, we'll see how the game turns out. I really don't believe PB would accept this project and portray it as they have if they didn't think they could pull it off. You underestimate the magic spells they use to make these games.

Or maybe they have their own magic orb-thing like the one that we saw in that one political figure's photo recently. Dunno.

 

[Deleted User]

I can respect that opinion, but to me in order to really feel more powerful I also have to feel weak. I think MMX handled it well, with monsters that would simply crush you if you went in to early but were later beatable. I understand if course that you can't really compare the scope between MMX and Skyrim though, but I felt the Gothics as well as other MM and Wizardry titles handled it better than Skyrim or newer Fallouts (haven't played 4 though). "Go where you want" is awesome, but for me it's even better if it's "Go where you want but expect to die"… That gives sneaking a whoke new dimension too, where you can go for loot that's awesome but you'll have a hard time reaching it since all the monsters will one shot you.

We all have different ideas of fun.

You're speaking my language here, brotha!

ELEX will have that in spades, apparently.

 

[NewDArt]

I can respect that opinion, but to me in order to really feel more powerful I also have to feel weak. I think MMX handled it well, with monsters that would simply crush you if you went in to early but were later beatable. I understand if course that you can't really compare the scope between MMX and Skyrim though, but I felt the Gothics as well as other MM and Wizardry titles handled it better than Skyrim or newer Fallouts (haven't played 4 though). "Go where you want" is awesome, but for me it's even better if it's "Go where you want but expect to die"… That gives sneaking a whoke new dimension too, where you can go for loot that's awesome but you'll have a hard time reaching it since all the monsters will one shot you.

We all have different ideas of fun.

Oh, I do think a satisfying power curve is part of the experience - but even if all the enemies scaled 100% in Skyrim (which they don't) - you would still feel more powerful by adding powers and skills along the way. You might not actuallly NEED those powers to succeed, but they would definitely make it easier.

But, to me, it's a combination of all the relevant factors.

Again, I think PB games have the best power curve of the three. But their systems tend to be simpler - and the loot a lot more straightforward. It's much easier to balance games when the arsenal is so limited.

Beth games are very much about scope and breadth - and they're much, much harder to balance - believe it or not.

I think they're doing a better job these days - and I don't think there can be any argument that the perk-based skill trees in Skyrim + Dragon Shouts + Unique item effects = a gigantic arsenal.

That's what makes progressing my character so much fun - even if I don't get to experience the perfect rags to riches journey.

But I don't think it's fair to say there is no power curve. That's just not true.

Of course, I always play on the harder difficulty levels - and I add mods on top of that. But still.

 

[NewDArt]

Well, we'll see how the game turns out. I really don't believe PB would accept this project and portray it as they have if they didn't think they could pull it off. You underestimate the magic spells they use to make these games.

Or maybe they have their own magic orb-thing like the one that we saw in that one political figure's photo recently. Dunno.

I don't think they started G3 thinking they couldn't finish it, either. Doh!

No developer would ever market his game as weak or not quite there.

But, Fluent, I live in the real world - remember. Not in never-never land!

 

[TomRon]

But I don't think it's fair to say there is no power curve. That's just not true.

You're right, that might be a bit harsh. I'll rephrase, the power curve present in newer Bethesda titles doesn't appeal to me because it feels superficial. I can admit that maybe it actually isn't, but when I can feel the world scaling alongside my character leveling it just rubs me the wrong way and takes a huge chunk of enjoyment out of the game.

 

[Deleted User]

I don't think they started G3 thinking they couldn't finish it, either. Doh!

No developer would ever market his game as weak or not quite there.

But, Fluent, I live in the real world - remember. Not in never-never land!

So you know the exact details behind the JoWood deal? I've heard the publisher, JoWood, was facing bankruptcy and rushed the game ahead of schedule. But maybe I read wrong.

PB has by all outside views a great publisher relationship now, so why would it be anything similar to what happened with a bankrupting publisher?

 

[NewDArt]

You're right, that might be a bit harsh. I'll rephrase, the power curve present in newer Bethesda titles doesn't appeal to me because it feels superficial. I can admit that maybe it actually isn't, but when I can feel the world scaling alongside my character it just rubs me the wring way.

That's fair enough. I can see your point.

I think it's a pretty inevitable concession based on what they're ultimately aiming for - but it's not impossible that there's a better way.

I, personally, can't think of a way that would give quite the kind of freedom and non-linearity they're after - but I'd love to see a solution some day.

I do think you're missing out on a great experience - but some things hit some people harder than others, and if you just really hate scaling, well....

 

[Deleted User]

Skyrim, my last Beth RPG, just felt heavily scaled, regardless of what they said about it. Seeing shopkeepers go from iron to steel to dwarven to ebony, etc., in a very unnatural, noticeable way, was a disappointment for me.

While I still enjoy modern Beth RPGs a lot, if given the choice I want more PB-style for progression, exploration and so on.

 

[NewDArt]

So you know the exact details behind the JoWood deal? I've heard the publisher, JoWood, was facing bankruptcy and rushed the game ahead of schedule. But maybe I read wrong.

Yeah, you heard wrong. PB took full responsibility shortly after release. That doesn't mean they couldn't have done more with more money - but no contract was breached and nothing wasn't honored. PB just didn't plan well enough and underestimated how long they would need to finish it.

PB has by all outside views a great publisher relationship now, so why would it be anything similar to what happened with a bankrupting publisher?

Few publishers are willing to keep funding indefinitely if a game is marketable.

But, really, why are we talking about this? The game is out in a few months - and I'm sure we'll both have things to say about it after playing it.

I'm greatly looking forward to it - but I don't have this need to believe everything about it will be fantastic. I can still have great fun with games even if they're flawed

Maybe I have nothing to worry about - and this gigantic world has been filled with meaty and unique content that doesn't get old.

In that case, I will most definitely be a very happy person during my playtime.