ELEX - Preview @ RGM

DArt, I'd suggest giving G3 another go, with the Alternative AI/Alternative Balance turned on, plus Hard difficulty. It's a difficult experience but much more rewarding.

I'm playing it now, and I definitely noticed flaws in the first hours of playing. But about 40 hours in and the brilliance of PB is starting to shine again. Many of the quests are indeed simple, but the overall design is based on giving you a ton of stuff to do. Gather this, find this, kill this, advance this questline, etc., all the while you are thinking about which important upgrade you're going to make next that will make a very noticeable difference in your strength.

For example, I just got the Game Hunter perk. Now I do double damage to game animals like deer, bison and so on. Since I also invested in the skinning perk I can now hunt bison pretty effectively and make a bunch of much-needed gold that way by selling their trophies. Since the AB mod is in effect, gold and LP are much more important than the base game, more like Gothic 1/2 standards, so every little bit helps. It's cool to just hunt and find new areas to explore, finding rare plants, crafting and upgrading your character. The world is so huge and there is stuff to find, even if the exploration isn't quite as bombastic in the same way as Gothic 2's is, it's still really good.

Another quick example, just discovered a Hashishin trader with a rare blade for sale. It has a better range than usual and is also poisoned. I'm eyeing up a very, very expensive bow, too, because it grants the Big Game Hunter perk without having to train it, and that will let you hunt predators twice as effectively. It's the little things in the game, of which there are many.

So yes, the quests are simple, but the game is interesting enough to keep me exploring and playing. That is a conscious choice by PB, as rather than having just a handful of heavily scripted things like Oblivion, it's more about giving you a ton of stuff to get just sidetracked to infinity with.

I like it a lot so far.
 
DArt, I'd suggest giving G3 another go, with the Alternative AI/Alternative Balance turned on, plus Hard difficulty. It's a difficult experience but much more rewarding.

I've tried it - and I didn't much like it. It was better, sure, but still felt artificial - and I could still game the system too easily.

I'm playing it now, and I definitely noticed flaws in the first hours of playing. But about 40 hours in and the brilliance of PB is starting to shine again. Many of the quests are indeed simple, but the overall design is based on giving you a ton of stuff to do. Gather this, find this, kill this, advance this questline, etc., all the while you are thinking about which important upgrade you're going to make next that will make a very noticeable difference in your strength.

I hate quests like that - it feels like an old MMO to me :)

You can literally feel the designers using a simple quest formula where they tweak a few numbers and write two lines of dialogue. It doesn't feel handcrafted or cared for at all. Not for me.

For example, I just got the Game Hunter perk. Now I do double damage to game animals like deer, bison and so on. Since I also invested in the skinning perk I can now hunt bison pretty effectively and make a bunch of much-needed gold that way by selling their trophies. Since the AB mod is in effect, gold and LP are much more important than the base game, more like Gothic 1/2 standards, so every little bit helps. It's cool to just hunt and find new areas to explore, finding rare plants, crafting and upgrading your character. The world is so huge and there is stuff to find, even if the exploration isn't quite as bombastic like Gothic 2's is.

Yes, I remember that and that was neat enough. But it's not enough for me. I need meaningful content and quests with a lot of interesting NPCs, stories, puzzles or SOMETHING that's not entirely predictable.

Another quick example, just discovered a Hashishin trader with a rare blade for sale. It has a better range than usual and is also poisoned. It's the little things in the game, of which there are many.

Remember that one, too.

So yes, the quests are simple, but the game is interesting enough to keep me exploring and playing. That is a conscious choice by PB, as rather than having just a handful of heavily scripted things like Oblivion, it's more about giving you a ton of stuff to get just sidetracked to infinity with.

I like it a lot so far.

No, it was an obvious consequence of having limited time and resources. You can tell by looking at Gothic 1, Gothic 2, Risen, Risen 2 and Risen 3.

Clearly, Gothic 3 was a mistake - and they know it.

But I'm glad you're enjoying it for what it is.
 
Nah, I have to disagree. Yes the game is somewhat unfinished, but they wouldn't have as many quests as they currently have if it was extremely limited by time and resources. There is a TON of stuff to do, purposely basic and considering how small PB is, it's a miracle they did what they did with the game.

So I would say that's a conscious design decision, that could have been fleshed out more, but isn't as unfinished as people seem to think. Because they sacrificed the tightness of G1/G2 in order to greatly expand the world, and that is just a different design choice in the end and a different way to spend their resources.

The game is just a different experience for me. I'm used to Elder Scrolls open-worlds, and this thing flips my perceptions upside down. Interesting NPCs, you won't really find any. At least, not interesting in the way you're likely expecting (long storylines, highly developed backstories, etc..) It's more about the little details here and there. Stories, puzzles, nah, you won't find much of that, but I personally don't need that if the world is just a fun playground to develop my dude in, while advancing towards bigger and better things/areas/monsters to kill.

I also wouldn't call it anything like predictable. I run through areas and get ambushed by shadowbeasts, hunted by snappers, jumped by a pack of lurkers and occasionally run into legendary monsters that look like t-rex's. An orc may bully me and try to extort me, I may get caught pickpocketing, get beat up and lose half my gold (and my weapon sometimes, damn), and so on. It's just like I said, more about emergent gameplay, "simulation" type stuff and less about story. That's really what it boils down to for me.
 
Nah, I have to disagree. Yes the game is somewhat unfinished, but they wouldn't have as many quests as they currently have if it was extremely limited by time and resources. There is a TON of stuff to do, purposely basic and considering how small PB is, it's a miracle they did what they did with the game.

It's incredibly easy to generate quests once you have a formula and the necessary code up and running. What takes time is developing assets and unique properties.

That's why MMOs can have thousands of quests that are all so alike. They're based on simple formulas that evolve over time at a snails pace.

So I would say that's a conscious design decision, that could have been fleshed out more, but isn't as unfinished as people seem to think. Because they sacrificed the tightness of G1/G2 in order to greatly expand the world, and that is just a different design choice in the end.

You can say what you want, but you're wrong. PB admitted this publically - where they clearly stated they bit over more than they could chew and they took responsibility for the state of release.

They did NOT plan to fill the world with hollow filler quests.

Again, it's supremely evident by looking at their past and future games. It's not that hard to figure this out, unless you're in denial.

If they really wanted this kind of design - why didn't they ever do it again?

The game is just a different experience for me. I'm using to Elder Scrolls open-worlds, and this thing flips my perceptions upside down. Interesting NPCs, you won't really find any. At least, not interesting in the way you're likely expecting (long storylines, highly developed backstories, etc..) It's more about the little details here and there. Stories, puzzles, nah, you won't find much of that, but I personally don't need that if the world is just a fun playground to develop my dude in, while advancing towards bigger and better things/areas/monsters to kill.

That's cool. I know you don't need much to enjoy your games :)

I also wouldn't call it anything like predictable. I run through areas and get ambushed by shadowbeasts, hunted by snappers, jumped by a pack of lurkers and occasionally run into legendary monsters that look like t-rex's. An orc may bully me and try to extort me, I may get caught pickpocketing and lose half my gold (and my weapon sometimes, damn), and so on. It's just like I said, more about emergent gameplay, "simulation" type stuff and less about story. That's really what it boils down to for me.

Good for you! :)
 
ELEX is probably going to be similar to G3, with improvements. I'm playing G3 now and it's clearly its own design. Not sure why anyone would have expected G3 to be as dense as G2, but mmk. No reason to argue over it.

Another horrible game with 2000+ steam reviews "Mostly Positive". Oh, rpgwatch.
 
ELEX is probably going to be similar to G3, with improvements. I'm playing G3 now and it's clearly its own design. Not sure why anyone would have expected G3 to be as dense as G2, but mmk. No reason to argue over it.

Another horrible game with 2000+ steam reviews "Mostly Positive". Oh, rpgwatch.

I don't think anyone here actually thinks it's horrible.

I liked it a lot.

But you don't have to be in denial to enjoy games. Well, you do - apparently - but most people don't.

Several of my favorite gaming experiences have had a ton of flaws.

You mentioned MoM recently. That probably ranks in my top-5 or close to it.

Still, it was completely broken in several ways.

But it takes time for people to notice these things. You're probably a little less experienced and a lot more in denial than the average Watch PC gamer.

I have no problem with that - I just don't understand why you're having such a hard time getting that other people aren't like that, usually.

Maybe if you accepted that about yourself and stopped trying to convert people to your religion, it would be easier for you ;)
 
But you don't have to be in denial to enjoy games. Well, you do - apparently - but most people don't.

Several of my favorite gaming experiences have had a ton of flaws.
Exactly.
It's hard to believe but even the undeniable best RPG in existence - which of course is TW3 - had some flaws. ;)
 
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A masterpiece has to have some flaw.
Wait... I said that a few times already.

I don't expect from Elex to be a masterpiece.
I wish it to be fun to play, but also I wish it to be boring to watch on twitch/youtube.
And I can't wait for Angry Joe review to laugh like crazy on that guy's "skills".
 
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I'm only looking forward to exploring. Will probably go for a ranged/magic character, no one should play melee with so much clunkiness and HP-bloat.
 
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A masterpiece has to have some flaw.
Wait… I said that a few times already.

Sure. And ask 10 people what the flaws are and you might get 10 different answers.

I know damn well what I would improve in every game I play. The ridiculous part is getting responses like "you're in denial" and other pointless bullshit that has nothing at all to do with the points I made. This is why I rarely post here anymore. It's not productive at all.

So enjoy. More pointless arguing incoming, I'm sure.
 
I think the most amazing part is that you don't see your own role in constantly ending up in the same kind of arguments with multiple people over and over.

Maybe there's a pattern there somewhere? ;)

In this case, the denial part is refusing to see how PB didn't plan for or mean to have the quests be so superficial. You have at least three people explaining the details of what happened - all of which makes perfect sense - and yet you refuse to accept that the possibility even exists.

It's pretty simple, you're in denial.

Doesn't mean the game can't be great fun - or that you're not allowed to enjoy it. I think the puzzle for the rest of us is why you need to make up things like "PB intended the game to be like this from the beginning" - when there's no reason for it.

You enjoy the quests in their current form, so why is it so important to you that PB planned them like that?
 
I'm in denial that I think responding here will lead to anything but you writing walls of text to me, yeah.

I definitely do see a pattern here.
 
And please provide evidence directly from the developers backing up the claims made here, I'll check it out. Thanks.
 
I'm in denial that I think responding here will lead to anything but you writing walls of text to me, yeah.

I definitely do see a pattern here.

I'm definitely not an easy guy to be around for people who insist on forcing their delusions upon others.

Which is a strange thing with you. Most people I know who thrive in denial prefer not to confront others with it, because they know they can't get away with it for long.

So…. what's your glitch in that way? ;)

And please provide evidence directly from the developers backing up the claims made here, I'll check it out. Thanks.

What would be my motivation?
 
Oh, I don't know, giving you ground for an argument that is based on fact rather than conjecture and rumors?

Moriendor also severely misquoted Bjorn Pankratz in the past, so I would like to see for myself exactly what the devs have said about the game.
 
Oh, I don't know, giving you ground for an argument that is based on fact rather than conjecture and rumors?

What makes you think your perception of that is of interest to me?

Moriendor also severely misquoted Bjorn Pankratz in the past, so I would like to see for myself exactly what the devs have said about the game.

Google isn't that hard. Do your own work.
 
*Yawn*.

Back to ELEX now.

The game is also going to have at least one city liberation as well. I mentioned it in a past thread. The various cities are also going to be huge.
 
Finally ;)

Yes, it should be interesting to see how it turns out. There's no way it can be worse than G3, anyway.
 
I expect the usual PB reviews and ratings from critics, but for fans of their stuff I think it's going to be really good.
 
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