General News - Diablo Immortal Review

borcanu

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im happy to see gamers waking up to the aftermath of this industry / culture . spiritual competence is a must, seeing the word in a game designer eyes, good and bad becomes obvious. praise god for the decadence peak has passed
 

Andrew23

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Gacha games are mostly financed by so called whales, people who don't have to care about money. The others can enjoy a free/cheap game (at least in the case of Genshin).

As far as I know, whales are defined by willingness to spend, regardless of their financial situation. So this monetizing system is actually based on its victims. So are we on the moral bottom already or can it go even lower?
 

HiddenX

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The term "Whale" is borrowed from the casino industry, where it is used to describe a rich gambler who bets extraordinarily large amounts of money. Just like in the game industry, casinos want to "catch" the most high-betting whales, because they provide a lot of income for comparably little expense.
 

Andrew23

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The term "Whale" is borrowed from the casino industry, where it is used to describe a rich gambler who bets extraordinarily large amounts of money. Just like in the game industry, casinos want to "catch" the most high-betting whales, because they provide a lot of income for comparably little expense.

Player populations that spend money on free-to-play games can be broken up into terms that borrow from gambling: "whales" which typically are the smallest segment, up to around 10% of players, but are willing to spend the most on a game;

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

Borrowed from gambling ... which is known to affect only rich people. So its perfectly ok, no problem here.
 
E

Eye

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The term "Whale" is borrowed from the casino industry, where it is used to describe a rich gambler who bets extraordinarily large amounts of money. Just like in the game industry, casinos want to "catch" the most high-betting whales, because they provide a lot of income for comparably little expense.

There is a big difference with any casino online or in a street where you have to spend money before being able to play it.

With a F2P game professionals have thought about the best way to tempt gamers to spend some money while playing, alone, with friends or after having contact with friends on social media.
I presume a low threshold aimed at the one that is new to throwing in a dollar/euro works better than a large sum. Imo you'd want the masses to throw in some bucks, and keep a part of them throwing in money on a regular basis.
Gacha games are mostly financed by so called whales [. . .] The others can enjoy a free/cheap game (at least in the case of Genshin).
So how big is that group of whales and the one enjoying a free/cheap game?

I have read articles saying the people paying are just 1-6% of all players, which is imo ridiculously low (and they have never given a link to any study, afaik), and that Wikipedia page @Andrew32 is referring to mentions
"whales" which typically are the smallest segment, up to around 10% of players, but are willing to spend the most on a game; "dolphins" which represent a larger portion of around 40% of players who spend some money but not as much as whales; and "minnows", representing about half the population, who spend the barest amount to maintain activity.[35]
But these numbers are from 2011:
Note 35, leads to Gamebrief:
Modelling the freemium power-law
For the purposes of this spreadsheet, I split your gamers into three groups:
. Minnows spend the smallest amount possible in a month, typically $1
. Dolphins spend a "middling" amount. Typically I forecast they spend an average of $5 per month
. Whales spend a lot. Typically I forecast they spend an average of $20 per month.
. Freeloaders (see Whales, power-laws and the future of media) are, of course, the fourth group. They are covered by the conversion rate and not considered here)

For more details on ARPPU, see the separate post on this topic - ARPPU in freemium games.

My starting point for what percentage of your users fit in which bucket is:

Minnows: 50% of payers
Dolphins: 40% of payers
Whales: 10% of payers
Note that this is an approximation of the shape of the power law. You can change the percentages and change the ARPPUs as you like.

Btw ARPPU = Average Revenue Per Paying User

So these numbers, of 2011 - more than a decade ago - and these numbers are a "forecast", an "approximation".

Is that still true in recent days and how much do these seperate groups spend?

I have been looking for the most recent figures and found this study of Top Dollar, April 2020, about The Spending Habits of MMO Gamers

Most MMO games allow in-game spending, meaning players can swap their real world money for virtual currency, special abilities, clothing, or even virtual vehicles and property for their characters. But how much money do they usually spend, what games are they spending in and what payment methods do they use? We surveyed 1,000 gamers across America to find out.
Over 60% of poll participants identified themselves as men and 37.9% as women. The average respondent was 32 years of age and reported spending three to six hours playing MMO games per day. Almost 90% said they have spent money on in-game purchases for MMO games, spending an average of $229 each in total.
picture.php

So a mere 10.6% spends $0.
A third, 28.8%, spends at least $250.
Almost half of the gamers (48.8%) spends $101 or more.
69% spends at least $51 dollars.
Only 15.9% spends less than $10.

picture.php

Some game types encourage more spending than others. Online battle arena, role-playing and combat games all draw heavy spending through in-game purchases.
picture.php

Game creators obviously know a thing or two about marketing and designing their games to encourage spending; the majority of our respondents believe they have to spend to remain competitive.
picture.php

picture.php
 
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Couchpotato

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I side with eye. Still I'm not interested in playing P2win games. I did read a recent article that claimed you would need to pay 1,000s of dollars just for the best gear. That's crazy.

We'll Make Your Gun Shiny For Only a Hundred Bucks - Jeff Vogel
I am old and slow, and the games industry moves very quickly. Thus a new trend can easily take over the entire industry for years without my even noticing. Then I find out about it and get shocked and startled and everyone justifiably mocks me.

While I was recently chatting on Discord with some young gamer friends (I'm not entirely out of it), they got really excited about something. Turns out, a new set of guns were about to be released for the shooty-game Valorant. These new guns will have fish on them.
 

Couchpotato

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One F2P MMO I do play is KoToR and you can pay money for cartel coins.

If you don't your stuck with basic gear, or have to spend 1000's of hours grinding just to acquire one piece of good equipment. Most of these F2P MMO's are rigged from the start.
 

HiddenX

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Maybe this data is relevant for Diablo Immortal, but Genshin Impact is a single player game without player vs. player competition.
You can play a little bit of coop, but it's not very well supported.
 
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Eye

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Maybe this data is relevant for Diablo Immortal, but Genshin Impact is a single player game without player vs. player competition.
You can play a little bit of coop, but it's not very well supported.
(Young/er?) people meet on social media, they share screen shots. Peer pressure is not limited to player vs player or coop.

The thing I'd like to add to my post above btw:

These data are interesting, how much people spend, but more interesting imo would be how much the sum they are spending is set against their discretionary income.
 
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Nereida

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The fact that the game is PvE is pointless. When I was a kid, the coolest kid at school was the one that had the rarest pokemon with the best stats. Everyone gathered around to admire it and it was a moment of glory for the Pokemon holder, a feeling that many teens cherish and treasure. Back then Pokemon was a fully PvE game. Many kids would all have given all their allowances and then some to have the best Pokemon, with perfectly rolled stats/elements.

Please quit defending malicious gambling inciting practices in any industry, but especially one directed at vulnerable segments of the society, such as kids and elderly people with much free time and little economic power. I expect better from RPGWatch.

Sure, you have self-restraint, and you can deal with it, that much is clear. You can ignore the gacha and get a good portion of what the game has to offer after playing 2 years and 1500 hours. Congratulations! Probably you can also tell when an email is trying to get your credit card information to steal your money. Pat in the back for you, clever guy.

That doesn't change the fact that a scam is still a scam if only 1% of the people fall for it, because the scam is not targetting you, it's targetting those that can't help it mostly due to being too young to know better, or mental illnesses.
 

wolfgrimdark

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I am in total agreement with Eye and Nereida here. Just because a game that has gambling aspects built in with real money can be played without spending money, if you have self-restraint, doesn't make it acceptable.

Won't repeat the excellent arguments already made other than point out this should be obvious to anyone and surprised someone continues to defend such a game simply because they have self-restraint to not gamble.

I have an addictive personality myself and know how easily it can be to fall into that trap, one reason I avoid games with MT's. I am also older, and learned some hard lessons growing up, so at least have some experience and moderate self-control to draw on to avoid such things.

At the very least any game with gambling in it should be flagged with a warning and restricted to adults only.
 
E

Eye

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I don't think that being too young or having an addictive tendency are the only things why these kind of games should be debated and warned against.

In every supermarket psychologists and marketing people have been busy to tempt ordinary folk into impulse buying. The tricks are clever. Lots of people come home with more than they had planned on buying.

Impulse buying is an important part of F2P.
 

HiddenX

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I will report news about games that are relevant in this industry. I will also post about my personal experiences with games I have played.

All gaming mechanics Hoyoverse is using are written down and you have to accept these gaming mechanics before you start to play. I can't see a scam or any "malicious gambling inciting practices" there.
If you don't read them then it is your fault or in case of kids the parents' fault.
You don't have to be a clever guy/gal to do this, just read the manual.
 
N

Nereida

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I don't think that being too young or having an addictive tendency are the only things why these kind of games should be debated and warned against.

In every supermarket psychologists and marketing people have been busy to tempt ordinary folk into impulse buying. The tricks are clever. Lots of people come home with more than they had planned on buying.

Impulse buying is an important part of F2P.

They even use the typical drug dealer strategy in these games. "First one is free". It's a meme, but it's true. They literally give you the first orb/gacha/gem for free so you get a taste of it, and then provoke those that lack self-restrain into spending their money.

Marketing techniques all use some level of "white" deception, but in general, say, a supermarket, you are not offered buckets of mystery items to fish for the one you really want, which can't be attained in any other way - you know what you are buying at all times. Imagine needing milk for your daily shopping and having to buy boxes of random items until you get the one with milk. Imagine having to do that to buy a hair dye, or a computer, or a car. And then coming here to pretend that's not a scam.


As for HiddenX - You can post what news you want, but prepare to find hard resistance every time, whether your friends give me yellow cards or not. You have your right to post shit, I have my right to demand better standards and call out immoral posters.
 
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Andrew23

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"The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members."

I will not pretend I know anyone on internet after reading few of his posts. That would be very arrogant. But I pity anyone who decided not to care about anyone else, who is not able to care for himself.
 

Couchpotato

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Well I see someone took it personal again and started a Genshin Impact thread.

It will henceforth be called the game that divided RPGWatch.:lol:

As for me I have minimal interest and no amount of reasoning will make me play it.
 

Couchpotato

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Our famous Larian shill WolfheartFPS has a new video about this game.

My Diablo "Immoral" Rant (Major Blow To The Industry)

 
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