Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Christmas Dev Stream

bjon045

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No I'm not confused - resusing map-parts is so irrelevant for my gameplay experience, that I really haven't noticed it.

Why are you referring to "map parts". I am referring to entire maps taken with zero change.
 

rjshae

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I do hope the second game addresses the limited selection of PrCs in the first. I was never very satisfied by the choices I had for character development. Even NWN2 had a better selection. It would also be cool if they could add in psionics at some point. They've been available in Pathfinder for nearly a decade.
 

Andrew23

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Why are you referring to "map parts". I am referring to entire maps taken with zero change.

Well, I noted this in case of few small zones, for example cave on hill, which is used to place some interesting loot or involving some smaller side-quest. Didnt notice this would involve any of the larger areas. The game is literally overflowing with content, most of it being distinct and hand-placed.

Cant see how we should complaint on this minor issue while most of contemporary game production uses lazy procedurally generated content. This game should be cherished for all the distinct content they managed to put in it, not opposite.
 

bjon045

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Cant see how we should complaint on this minor issue while most of contemporary game production uses lazy procedurally generated content. This game should be cherished for all the distinct content they managed to put in it, not opposite.

Of course you should provide constructive criticism, how else would they improve? As you note, the game is already overflowing with content so rather than cloning areas just concentrate the actual content. The hill you are referring to actually occurs 4 times. All I am suggesting is get rid of a couple of them (i.e. 2) and move the content into the other two. The worse one of those hills is an empty map with a single wyvern who drops NO LOOT! Just get rid of that area and move the Wyvern into another of the hills (or just get rid of it given the sheer number of Wyvern already in the game).

You seem to think I am complaining when I rate the game very highly and I am one of their largest backers (in terms of Kickstarter pledge and involvement in the alpha and beta). Blind fans is not what Owlcat needs, they need ones that can suggest improvements so the game can be better and more successful (sales and better reviews).
 
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purpleblob

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@bjon045; - I suggest you provide feedback in Owlcat forums if you wish to help them improve the game. Whether your feedback is taken as a high priority or not is up to them of course. But from what I've seen, they take all feedback seriously.

I don't think any of posters here are being "blind fans" - after all, we all want Owlcats to deliver another stellar game.

Also, I think it doesn't hurt to point out what's been done well too as part of feedback :)
 

bjon045

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@bjon045; - I suggest you provide feedback in Owlcat forums if you wish to help them improve the game. Whether your feedback is taken as a high priority or not is up to them of course. But from what I've seen, they take all feedback seriously.

I have provided about two pages worth of feedback when the main Wrath thread was created about a month ago ;)
 
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purpleblob

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I have provided about two pages worth of feedback when the main Wrath thread was created about a month ago ;)

Great!! Do you mind sending me a link? Just curious :)

I STRONGLY suggested they should provide more portraits in WotR. Probably one of the lowest priority items but hey, that's one of my feedback ;)
 

bjon045

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Great!! Do you mind sending me a link? Just curious :)

I STRONGLY suggested they should provide more portraits in WotR. Probably one of the lowest priority items but hey, that's one of my feedback ;)

Agree 100% on portraits - I don't think it should be low priority. I found it very hard to even select a portrait for most races/classes apart from aasimar, elves and some human classes.

I think I did exaggerate on the amount of feedback I provided at the start of this month (so I increased it a bit ;)) but it is in this thread here:
https://owlcatgames.com/forums/show...uld-you-like-to-see-in-Wrath-of-the-Righteous

edit: my feedback is on page 5.
 
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purpleblob

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Agree 100% on portraits - I don't think it should be low priority. I found it very hard to even select a portrait for most races/classes apart from aasimar, elves and some human classes.

I think I did exaggerate on the amount of feedback I provided at the start of this month (so I increased it a bit ;)) but it is in this thread here:
https://owlcatgames.com/forums/show...uld-you-like-to-see-in-Wrath-of-the-Righteous

edit: my feedback is on page 5.

Yeah, I just read it. I totally agree on the lack of decent loot variety and drop rate btw.
 

bjon045

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Yeah, I just read it. I totally agree on the lack of decent loot variety and drop rate btw.

I know. I remember selling 20+ named Kukri while my main was using a Greatsword +1 of Frost(d6) until Chapter 4 (I think).
 

wolfgrimdark

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Well it is ultra easy to make one's own portraits or find them online and add them. I mean super easy. I prefer having that flexibility myself as it is nearly impossible to provide enough portraits to appease everyone. That being said I agree they were limited. On the other hand two genders, numerous races and bloodlines, tons of classes … that would amount to a lot of portraits.

The loot can be irksome. I am playing a Sacred Huntsman with 4 levels of knife master rogue. I invested totally in dual wielding daggers as my main weapon - combining perks and rogue knife master abilities. He is a very capable fighter, especially with his wolf companion and buffs and heals and mixed magic. Plus he gets decent enough backstab damage (4 with 2 from rogue, and 2 from feats) and when he gets the Dark Wind dagger that will make 5.

Anyhow until last night (and level 13 at the time) I had the chaos shard dagger +2 and the cold iron +1 dagger. Never even saw generic dagger +X (EDIT: well +1 but not higher than that) drop. Luckily I picked up Edict last night (+4 dagger, -3 to will on hit, speed) so that with the chaos shard is working way better. With Dark Wind (+5 I think, +5 to stealth, extra sneak attack damage) he will be great. There is also Dormition but I always kill that guy.

But I agree some more loot variety would be nice. On the other hand I also look at that LONG list of weapons o_O which can make it hard. There are enough daggers - the problem was that there seemed to be a long time frame where you get no upgrades. I could have also had just bad luck with the random weapons roll. Also I think there is a crafter who makes some.

Pretty happy with the armor choices. Could use some more boots and gloves though.
 

Drithius

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That's one area they need to improve in: I believe they offered *too much* weapon variety in Pathfinder Kingmaker. Even for a game of its size, it's nigh impossible for them to progressively make available an upgrade path for each weapon type without enchanted items dropping from practically every enemy as a result. A tighter focus would improve the flow of future games.
 

ChienAboyeur

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I suspect this basically sums core of the issue. There are people around here that would pick BG or P:K over RDR2 any day of week. Suppose unlike you.

BG is twenty years old. RDR2 is the result of a process, of a progression.
If anything, BG should be compared to games from its own time of release to see how those games have evolved over the last twenty years.

BG continuation in present days is nothing like progression. Very little experimentation, impossibility to build on a basis.

RDR2 continues RDR, which is part of another large gaming effort. It tries to further a path taken earlier.

Isometric RTwP party based products show nothing of the sort. It is stuck in the past. It has built up nothing.
 

Maylander

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I think I know where you're coming from @bjon045;. Kingmaker, like The Witcher 3, would actually benefit from cutting some content in favor of increasing the quality of certain aspects. Either that, or find a way to actually make the optional content optional.

A few numbers from howlongtobeat.com completionist runs:
- The Witcher 3: 173 hours
- Kingmaker: 172 hours
- BG2: SoA + ToB: 179,5 hours
- Skyrim: 225 hours

In theory, BG2 and Skyrim are both bigger than Kingmaker or The Witcher 3. However, I can play "through" both in 50 hours or some such thing, even if I complete most of the content I consider relevant/good. I know where to go, what to skip and what's worth doing and in what order to do it. This makes a huge difference in BG2 and Skyrim, allowing me to replay the games fairly frequently while still trying out new stuff.

I've played through Kingmaker and The Witcher 3 twice, and I want to do so again, but I just can't. Despite the fact that I consider The Witcher 3 superior to Skyrim by a fair margin. The story, NPCs and quests are way beyond anything seen in Skyrim. However, I know I'll have to go through almost all the content, both good and bad, or I'll end up severly below par by the end of the game.

I can't put 100+ hours into replaying a game that I've already played multiple times, knowing that 40 of them will feel like a drag. I have the exact same problem with Dragon Age: Inquisition too; they should have cut a few of the zones in favor of improving the remaining ones.

I think that's probably why I keep going back to the likes of MM7, BG2 and Gothic 1/2: They strike such a good balance between quantity and quality, which is incredibly hard to do.
 

Andrew23

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BG is twenty years old. RDR2 is the result of a process, of a progression.
If anything, BG should be compared to games from its own time of release to see how those games have evolved over the last twenty years.

BG continuation in present days is nothing like progression. Very little experimentation, impossibility to build on a basis.

RDR2 continues RDR, which is part of another large gaming effort. It tries to further a path taken earlier.

Isometric RTwP party based products show nothing of the sort. It is stuck in the past. It has built up nothing.

No one compares the games. You are missing the point.
 
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purpleblob

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But I agree some more loot variety would be nice. On the other hand I also look at that LONG list of weapons o_O which can make it hard. There are enough daggers - the problem was that there seemed to be a long time frame where you get no upgrades. I could have also had just bad luck with the random weapons roll. Also I think there is a crafter who makes some.

That's one area they need to improve in: I believe they offered *too much* weapon variety in Pathfinder Kingmaker. Even for a game of its size, it's nigh impossible for them to progressively make available an upgrade path for each weapon type without enchanted items dropping from practically every enemy as a result. A tighter focus would improve the flow of future games.

Both of you have really good points. I do agree that Kingmaker has maybe too much weapon variety, especially if you compare it to say… BG2. Which makes it difficult to distribute decent weapons of all that variety - probably the easiest way is to make merchants stock up new items regularly (but then, where is the fun? I prefer getting spiffy weapons dropping off from epic boss battles). I don't think Owlcats can really cut down the weapon variety though - if anything, a lot of Pathfinder fans want MORE weapon variety (from what I've seen on Owlcat forums and Discord). It will be interesting to see how Owlcats tackle this problem in WotR.
 

Cacheperl

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I wonder what they will do with character progression. It's a bit of a bother that several classes have defining changes coming in their last level up. Which you might never see. (Of course, you should plan your build without taking that last level into account, but still… )

Anything on that?

I have to say I also have no idea how this interacts with mythical progression.
 
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