Project Phoenix - Delayed Until 2018

[Aubrielle]

Project Phoenix, the too-good-to-be-true Kickstarter JRPG project from 2013, has been delayed again till 2018. Hmm. Thanks, Couch.

On September 11, 2013, the Kickstarter project Project Phoenix successfully ended, raising just over $1 million for a game they estimated would be out in March of 2015. Last night, the people behind the project announced a bit of a delay. They’re now aiming to ship the game in late 2018.

Project Phoenix, which promised to “set a new standard of excellence for the Japanese gaming industry,” raised a number of red flags when it first went live. In addition to targeting a very small amount of money for game development—their original goal was just $100,000—the campaign made many lofty promises that seemed tough if not impossible to deliver. As veteran RPG designer Robert Boyd pointed out rather presciently, the warning signs were all there.

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[Wenzil]

How did this thing EVER raise over $1 million?

 

[joxer]

Phone audience, that's how.

 

[Hurls]

The earliest is 2018! They still dont have a programmer!

 

[Wenzil]

Stick a fork in it.

 

[CelticFrost]

and this is why I don't support kickstarter period!!!!

 

[CelticFrost]

Speaking kickstarter, besides D:OS(which I personally don't like the fact they use kickstarter) has there been any RPG game that truly came through?

 

[Aubrielle]

Speaking kickstarter, besides D:OS(which I personally don't like the fact they use kickstarter) has there been any RPG game that truly came through?

Pillars of Eternity? Wasteland 2?

 

[CelticFrost]

Pillars of Eternity? Wasteland 2?

Though I liked pillars, it was full of bugs and the story was less then great near the end of the game.

So if you are going to take my 2-4 years before I get the game release something I can play without bugs. I also still don't believe the came through on all of their promises either.

As for Wasteland zero interest so I can't comment.

Though by just saying only two you sort of make my point. A lot of people seem to say Kickstarter has saved RPG gaming. I sort of feel the opposite, I don't have the time to play 100 games a year. I would rather see some of these people getting together and releasing 20-30 good playable games.

Getting a little sick of waiting two years for it to be patched to a playable state.

 

[Aubrielle]

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, though I would respectfully disagree, as would a lot of people here, I think…

The fact is that there is and was very little interest among AAA developers for good, hearty RPG's like we enjoyed in the mid-late 90's. If you were to approach Ubisoft or EA or any of the big corporate developers and mention a Baldur's Gate remake - prior to PoE - they'd have laughed you out of the boardroom. And they may still. Love it or hate it, PoE, D:OS, Shadowrun Returns, and Wasteland 2 showed big money one important thing - we want our RPG's, and we will buy them, and we will play the crap out of them…then we'll spend years talking about them. I speak for myself and for a lot of the RPG gamers I know, but I obviously can't speak for you personally, since everyone's interests are a bit different and we all want our games to deliver something a bit different from person to person.

But KS has made a huge impact by giving us back deep, rich, quality RPG's, even if you argue that there's only been a few huge, noteworthy ones. More are coming. Stockholders and investors and developers of games like Call of D-Bag: Frat Boy Ops weren't going to give us what we wanted.

And I would argue that these Kickstarter RPG's are in a way better state than anything Ubisoft has released, ever.

 

[CelticFrost]

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, though I would respectfully disagree, as would a lot of people here, I think…

The fact is that there is and was very little interest among AAA developers for good, hearty RPG's like we enjoyed in the mid-late 90's. If you were to approach Ubisoft or EA or any of the big corporate developers and mention a Baldur's Gate remake - prior to PoE - they'd have laughed you out of the boardroom. And they may still. Love it or hate it, PoE, D:OS, Shadowrun Returns, and Wasteland 2 showed big money one important thing - we want our RPG's, and we will buy them, and we will play the crap out of them…then we'll spend years talking about them. I speak for myself and for a lot of the RPG gamers I know, but I obviously can't speak for you personally, since everyone's interests are a bit different.

But KS has made a huge impact by giving us back deep, rich, quality RPG's, even if you argue that there's only been a few huge, noteworthy ones. More are coming. Stockholders and investors and developers of games like Call of D-Bag: Frat Boy Ops weren't going to give us what we wanted.

At the end of the day most of these games are no better and I am not here to tell you they are. But if I am putting up my money give me what you promised. Don't make me wait four years for it to be playable after I waited 3 for you to make it.

I have been playing these games since 84 and I see a decline in any sort of development to something ground breaking. So if re-hashing the same things you have played 100 times with a new shine box. Wait we don't even get a box!!!
I will not say that in the very beginning Kickstarter did not help get some games made that wouldn't get made. I am saying a lot of them now shouldn't.

 

[CelticFrost]

Here is another way to put it.

EA, CDRed etc are making a new game. You don't like it, it is full of bugs, you wait years for it to be patched so it is playable. Well they didn't ask you for money to make it.

My problem is if you say this is going to be in it, this is going to happen, it will be this and you will get it at this point. It better be this if you I give you money up front to do this.

So back to what I had say how many RPG games that have been on kickstarter have done this? Released a game that they say it was with no bugs no need for patches etc.?

 

[Aubrielle]

At the end of the day most of these games are no better and I am not here to tell you they are. But if I am putting up my money give me what you promised. Don't make me wait four years for it to be playable after I waited 3 for you to make it.

I see your point, I do. And I can't argue it, honestly. Though I think I've seen the debate before…do we give developers the benefit of the doubt, since games are worlds bigger and more complex than they were in the Gold Box days? Are loads and loads of bugs at launch something we resign ourselves to expect? Squashing every bug and doing every design choice the producer wants might mean the game never comes out - Swen Vincke hinted at this, if I remember.

I don't have an opinion, really, though I understand yours. For me, I'm willing to take the bad with the good, because I see a lot of good that's come from this.

And as to your second point, KS may just be an alternative, a second avenue, to give players a voice and a chance to get the game of their dreams made. But it certainly isn't perfect.

 

[Couchpotato]

Well as the saying goes a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch.

So while I agree with CelticFrost about the bugs we all have to remember that without kickstarter those games would have never be funded as Aubrielle said above.

Anyway I always look at how ambitious a game is, and how much a developer asks to get funded. A small amount usually has me baffled at how the game will get developed.

As Chris Avellone said ask for how much it really cost. Though that always leads to know it all's saying the developer is asking for to much money, and they fail.

TLDR: I'm happy with my backed games despite a few road-bumps & failures.

 

[CelticFrost]

I see your point, I do. And I can't argue it, honestly. Though I think I've seen the debate before…do we give developers the benefit of the doubt, since games are worlds bigger and more complex than they were in the Gold Box days? Are loads and loads of bugs at launch something we resign ourselves to expect? Squashing every bug and doing every design choice the producer wants might mean the game never comes out - Swen Vincke hinted at this, if I remember.

I don't have an opinion, really, though I understand yours. For me, I'm willing to take the bad with the good, because I see a lot of good that's come from this.

And as to your second point, KS may just be an alternative, a second avenue, to give players a voice and a chance to get the game of their dreams made. But it certainly isn't perfect.

I am not sure they are bigger or more complex or they don't set a set amount of money aside to make it perfect.

A bit of back ground on what I do. I look a drawings all day long and pick tooling to make these parts. I let companies know how they can make them and what tooling they need to make them.

25 years ago not everyone had a CNC machine, so to go to your point on more complex in my world it is more complex. That doesn't mean I get a free pass when I am quoting the package with the amount of time it will take to do the part.

Peoples jobs relay on what I am telling them and 12seconds may not seem a lot to most people. When you are quoting on making 5,000,000 parts and I say you can do it in 12 seconds and it takes you 17 it does.

 

[CelticFrost]

Well as the saying goes a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch.

So while I agree with CelticFrost about the bugs we all have to remember that without kickstarter those games would have never be funded as Aubrielle said above.

Anyway I always look at how ambitious a game is, and how much a developer asks to get funded. A small amount usually has me baffled at how the game will get developed.

As Chris Avellone said ask for how much much it really cost. Though that always leads to know it all's saying the developer is asking for to much money, and they fail.

TLDR: I'm happy with my backed games despite a few road-bumps & failures.

So you are willing to give you money away freely in hopes they do half a job just to have something to play?

I guess I just don't live in that sort of world where I am able to do that sort of thing. I am seriously sick of paying for a game up front, then playing it on release to give them feed back on how to fix it.

The real world doesn't work this way and I am not that needy for games to be willing to fund this sort of practice. I don't have much more time then to play 5-8 games a year as it is to completion. Giving these people a walk is just poor business and really seems needy and not needed.

If you take a look at the list of games for game of the year and indy game of the year how many of them you play? How may of them were in any state to play to completion? Can you tell me we would not be better off if they were less not more?

 

[greywolf00]

Speaking kickstarter, besides D:OS(which I personally don't like the fact they use kickstarter) has there been any RPG game that truly came through?

Lords of Xulima was really well done imo. I've heard good things about Serpent in the Staglands, but haven't played it myself. Legends of Eisenwald has been a blast so far as well.

 

[mbpopolano24]

No, I would not be better off with less. I would not be better off without D:OS, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun, Underrail (early access), Paper Sorcerer, and so many more. It does not matter how much I like these games personally, having the option of playing them is objectively much better than having only action-RPGs and FPS-RPG lite games. Before crowdfunding we experienced one of worst droughts in RPG gaming history. A very long one. After, even big publishers tried to offer a more varied catalog (see Might and Magic X).

Nobody is forcing you to put money down to encourage a more diverse gaming experience. If you don't want, feel free to wait until their are ready, if they will be completed.

All your other objections are just a bunch of nonsense. Feel free to enjoy your nonsense, who cares? But trying to discredit the whole phenomenon picking and choosing a few 'bad apples' is not going to win you the argument.

 

[CelticFrost]

Fair enough! I am not one to tell people how to spend their money.

Maybe just not only with Kickstarter games but other games to release working playable games without having to wait 1 to 4 years to be able to play them.

 

[dpc76]

How did this thing EVER raise over $1 million?

It's a JRPG by some of the talent behind the Final Fantasy games, among others. It had a lot of backing by the JRPG crowd, where it was viewed as "dream team" type collaboration.

I was interested in this game and had wondered what happened to it. Delayed for 3-4 years?! Ridiculous. Glad I don't back kickstarter games.