Rogue Trader - Gameplay Trailer

Yep I know some think I'm not a TB fan due to my comments on this forum but that's wrong. I just don't want every game released to be the same as I enjoy variety.

Seems large developers mimicking Souls-likes, and smaller are making TB games.

Your mention of Dune is intriguing as well as the series started out as an adventure game but pioneered the RTS genre a few years later. It's interesting to see the changes.

Even Spellforce is going the TB 4X route also. Do these type of games sell better?
 
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Even Spellforce is going the TB 4X route also. Do these type of games sell better?
Well, things do ebb and flow in popularity so yeah, maybe TB is selling well these days. Look at all the deck builders in the last few years. Fast forward 5 years and those could be gone - and maybe most RPGs will be RTwP. :biggrin:
 
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I like both systems. I'm kind of glad they're going TB here, but I hope this game is a little shorter than the Pathfinder games. I tend to get burned-out on longer TB games.
 
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I agree its all fads. Remember after the new X-Com came out how the Shadowrun games and a lot of forgettable games copied the 2 action point system and the cover mechanics?
 
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Yeah, it's a silly argument to make. There's no way to empirically measure whether TB is better than RTwP or vice versa; it is just a preference. Not to diverge too far off of this thread but that's a big problem in the world these days in general; the idea that my preference - or what I like - inherently makes another position wrong or bad.

Though there can be a case made, I think, where TB or TRwP is more suited to a particular game or design. Take the new Dune 4x. As a 4x, you'd expect that to be TB but it is RTwP - and I'd say that decision actually works well with how that game was designed. It would be a different sort of game if it were TB; not necessarily a worse one, just different.
What you can say empirically is that TB gets better the more creatures you need to control (and/or the more detailed the level of management), whereas RTwP grows increasingly unmanageable. Trying to manage a game like Battle Brothers using RTwP would not be fun.
 
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What you can say empirically is that TB gets better the more creatures you need to control (and/or the more detailed the level of management), whereas RTwP grows increasingly unmanageable. Trying to manage a game like Battle Brothers using RTwP would not be fun.
I get what you're saying but I'd still disagree with that. Having more things to manage in real-time does not mean that's a worse experience. It might be for you or me, but there may be players who like the added complexity and pressure in dealing with the higher cognitive load. TB is better if you prefer less time-pressure and don't like crazy clicking around; but that's a subjective preference. So while it might grow more unmanageable for you, it might be growing into another player's sweet spot.
 
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I get what you're saying but I'd still disagree with that. Having more things to mange in real-time does not mean that's a worse experience. It might be for you or me, but there may be players who like the added complexity and pressure in dealing with the higher cognitive load. TB is better if you prefer less time-pressure and don't like crazy clicking around; but that's a subjective preference. So while it might grow more unmanageable for you, it might be growing into another player's sweet spot.
Sure, sure. But I can't imagine there's much of a market for fantasy RPGs targeting potential fighter pilots. If your goal is to create a game that most people can play and enjoy, then it matters.
 
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Well I love Kingmaker and Wrath. They’re some of my favorite CRPGs and I’m a bit of a fanatic for genre. I love RTwP combat always will, and Divinity 1+2 sold me on Turn-Based.

However across my many play-throughs I’ve realized something. I don’t enjoy combat in most RPGs I play. I do enjoy the story, the characters and setting though. I'm weird.

Probably why I love to play on easiest difficulty or just cheat with a trainer.:biggrin:
 
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I am not familiar with the Warhammer 40K universe apart from playing with the figurines as a kid. I like dark worlds, yet this whole Emperor as some kind of god business does not tempt me. Too much focus on zealotry. Hopefully it's just a world-building element and not as much present in the game itself. I am not a fan of religions and perhaps therefore did not like WotR. On the first look this game would more my bag than WotR if it was not for the Emperor stuff. That figure appears all too powerful.
 
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However across my many play-throughs I’ve realized something. I don’t enjoy combat in most RPGs I play. I do enjoy the story, the characters and setting though. I'm weird.
I don't find that weird. I have also realised that I rarely enjoy game-mechanics in any game I have played - perhaps apart from Civilization games and the like. It's the story, immersion and imagination that keeps me playing games.

Hence games like Dark Souls would probably not be for me (I intend to find out by trying Elden Ring when the price drops a bit), and I found games like TW3, RDR2, or CP2077 enjoyable: I don't focus on the mechanics. Sure, shooting crap can be enjoyable until it starts to repeat itself. The game mechanics go the other way for me, I don't really care about it unless a game starts to annoy me mechnics-wise (happening with Weird West at the moment). BG3 hits a nice balance between story, immersion, imagination and mechanics that I find enjoyable. I am excited about that one. Kingmaker and WotR became repetitive all too quick. Kingmaker story kept me interested almost until the end even though I never managed to finish it. WotR story I got tired after less than 10 h and have not returned, yet, perhaps I never will.
 
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I agree its all fads. Remember after the new X-Com came out how the Shadowrun games and a lot of forgettable games copied the 2 action point system and the cover mechanics?
I think it's more a demand for it than following the trend set by other games.

Their first game, Kingmaker, was RTwP only until a mod added TB and got so much success that they added TB into the main game in the Enhanced Plus Edition. In WotR they worked a lot to improve TB while still supporting RTwP. I think it was preset to TB but I'm not 100% sure. When they were streaming, they were playing TB themselves, at least the parts I saw.

Supporting both modes was great but there was the problem of game length - TB is dramatically longer with the same number of enemies in each combat. They didn't want to modify the encounters based on the mode because it was possible to change on the fly and that would have created strange situations, though IMO it's not a real concern because in general people don't change the mode all the time. It's also a pain to support both modes, we have seen how they struggled getting it right.

So I think they had two choices: either choose the most successful mode or fix the mode at the start of the game, like PoE2. They did several surveys, some of which included questions about the mode, so they had a good idea of what their fans preferred, and since Owlcat Games have shown multiple times that they were listening, I have no doubt they opted for the most popular mode.

However across my many play-throughs I’ve realized something. I don’t enjoy combat in most RPGs I play. I do enjoy the story, the characters and setting though. I'm weird.

Probably why I love to play on easiest difficulty or just cheat with a trainer.:biggrin:
I'm getting there too, apparently. I still enjoy the combat but in games as rich and as long as Pathfinder, the story and quests would be enough for me. I suppose that on the easiest mode, encounters don't last too much even in TB.
 
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I don't mind this being TB as long as Owlcat's next Pathfinder game supports RTwP ;)
 
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However across my many play-throughs I’ve realized something. I don’t enjoy combat in most RPGs I play. I do enjoy the story, the characters and setting though. I'm weird.
I don't think that's weird; just a form of sophistication. For example, I no longer enjoy the tedious combat in blobbers and I'm tiring of reflex-driven action games. Tactical sophistication of the combat combined with player agency and your preferences are the selling points of RPGs to me now.
 
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I haven't been a fan of combat for over a decade now. I focus on other things. I can enjoy combat for a little while, and like some, but when every fight becomes a struggle or eats up time I put it on easy.
 
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I'll be surely resuming reading Warhammer 40K novels if this game is good! Goes well with the gameplay, I found, during my self-modded and boosted Sanctus Reach.
 
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I haven't been a fan of combat for over a decade now. I focus on other things. I can enjoy combat for a little while, and like some, but when every fight becomes a struggle or eats up time I put it on easy.
In games where basically all character progression is built around the combat, setting combat to easy equals to disregarding character progression. And because to me, RPGs are mainly about character progression, I almost immediately loose interest and get bored. I usually get that feeling, like, why bother playing RPG if there is meaningless character progression? I would rather play other genre instead. Or watch movie for story. But I get that other people feel it otherwise.
 
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I think it's more a demand for it than following the trend set by other games.

Their first game, Kingmaker, was RTwP only until a mod added TB and got so much success that they added TB into the main game in the Enhanced Plus Edition. In WotR they worked a lot to improve TB while still supporting RTwP. I think it was preset to TB but I'm not 100% sure. When they were streaming, they were playing TB themselves, at least the parts I saw.

Supporting both modes was great but there was the problem of game length - TB is dramatically longer with the same number of enemies in each combat. They didn't want to modify the encounters based on the mode because it was possible to change on the fly and that would have created strange situations, though IMO it's not a real concern because in general people don't change the mode all the time. It's also a pain to support both modes, we have seen how they struggled getting it right.

So I think they had two choices: either choose the most successful mode or fix the mode at the start of the game, like PoE2. They did several surveys, some of which included questions about the mode, so they had a good idea of what their fans preferred, and since Owlcat Games have shown multiple times that they were listening, I have no doubt they opted for the most popular mode.


I'm getting there too, apparently. I still enjoy the combat but in games as rich and as long as Pathfinder, the story and quests would be enough for me. I suppose that on the easiest mode, encounters don't last too much even in TB.
I played all of WOTR in turn based and it took me almost 120 hours to complete, which was a good 20% more than Kingmaker. There are very few games that long where I don't get tired at the end or try to beeline to the finish. I am planning to replay it at some point. Anyways you are right, its dramatically longer in turn based. I also just replayed POE2 in turn based. First play through in RTWP 49 hours. Second play through in turn based 69 hours. I still prefered turn based. I find the battles a bit chaotic in real time. But that may be just me. But if I didn't like the combat I'd definitely prefer real time as its much faster.
 
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I get what you're saying but I'd still disagree with that. Having more things to manage in real-time does not mean that's a worse experience. It might be for you or me, but there may be players who like the added complexity and pressure in dealing with the higher cognitive load. TB is better if you prefer less time-pressure and don't like crazy clicking around; but that's a subjective preference. So while it might grow more unmanageable for you, it might be growing into another player's sweet spot.
Yes, and some RTS pros can manage building a base, researching, micromanaging units on opposite ends of the map and more. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that RtwP could be amazing (for some players) given larger groups of units to manage.

However, it's not for me :D
 
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I have 564.4 hours played in WOTR, probably nothing compared to Purple, but even if I am not big on combat I have a blast playing and developing my characters. WOTR I play on a custom mix of settings between hard core and casual - settings that make sense to me and ones that include QOL. I also don't min/max characters, don't create cookie cutter builds or the "recommended" builds on websites, and let my companions go with their pre-built style so I can focus on my character. I also play RTWP entirely. I have plenty of challenge this way and have fun.

It depends on the game. FO4 I play on hard core survival because I can use VATS to overcome my slow reflexes and lack of twitch skills. Skyrim I played on novice for years. I am finally on Adept and that is about as hard as I can go before it gets frustrating. But I also impose a ton of rules on my characters and never min/max or carry around different weapons and armor for every occasion or use over-powered mods.

Everyone finds a balance that meets their game play style and is fun for them.

Oh ... and I am currently in chapter two on a fourth play through now that I have all the DLC and a bunch of nice patches installed.

EDIT: And can also see how much I care about things like achievements :p
 

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