RPGWatch Feature - Black Geyser Review

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Nereida

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Sadly you just seem to be repeating yourself. Moving nothing forward, adding nothing new nor interesting. Hate for the sake of hate for a game you haven't even stated why you're even interested in following the news of.

I'm investing no emotions in defining the game, neither of hate or any other. I'm stating objective facts and providing definitions from the official dictionary based on the qualities of the game itself, in the hopes that people will have a real idea of what the game is like before spending their well-earned money.

You are really uninteresting to me both as a reviewer and as a person, so please refrain from citing me to beg for my attention, or pretending you know what my intentions are. It only makes you look more pathetic and desperate than usual.
 

lackblogger

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in the hopes that people will have a real idea of what the game is like before spending their well-earned money.

Surely you'd have to actually play the game in order to provide a real idea of what the game is like. Hmm, wait a moment, hmm, yes, a bit like a, er, review!

Also: 733 words and still no mention of the game's content.

And thanks for stating that your intention is to try and influence the buying public. It's always fascinating when people do that without having played the game in question. I'm sure nothing would go wrong if that became the norm!
 
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bkrueger

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I'm investing no emotions in defining the game, neither of hate or any other. I'm stating objective facts and providing definitions from the official dictionary based on the qualities of the game itself, in the hopes that people will have a real idea of what the game is like before spending their well-earned money.

You are really uninteresting to me both as a reviewer and as a person, so please refrain from citing me to beg for my attention, or pretending you know what my intentions are. It only makes you look more pathetic and desperate than usual.
Don't you realize that you are behaving [removed name-calling]
 
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Centaur

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Long time lurker and old-school game here.

I got the chance to meet the devs of Black Geyser personally in a local event in their city.

I asked them why they rushed out the game, it really needed a year more polishing if not more. I asked them why the fetch quests - politely, that is. Their answer was simple, they're operating from very small money because the funds they got on kickstarter were used up long ago and same happened with local investment money / loans.

I told them Pillars of Eternity was Kickstarted too. They politely told me Pillars had a 10 times more budget than they do, and I should imagine I have to make a living from 1/10 of the budget every month. I had to agree with them at the end of the day - it would be impossible basically. The analogy is perfect. Think about it.

So, users like @purpleblob1; and others have no clue how the world works. They are selfish. Why I'm saying this? I lurked the talks here back in 2018. @purpleblob1; had harsh complaints about Black Geyser even that time and someone asked her, why she expects the same standards from a game that is not made by Pillars Team, since the team has much smaller resources than that. She answered she doesn't care, there is market competition. So, she had zero sympathy, empathy. People like this are digging the grave of indies.

At the end of the day, you have to choose if you want weaker indies or no indies at all. And nope, indie is not a clear team. Solasta is not indie in the sense that one of its founder is coming from a major company with a very long past in development scene.

I played Black Geyser and it has its charm. Not for everyone's taste but I find it disgusting when people are trying to convince others NOT to play it with endless crusades on Steam forums for instance. You don't like a game? Then don't play it. Tell your thoughts if you want, but don't be toxic. It's that easy.

Ten-fifteen years ago, Baldur's Gate modding Communities lived their golden age. I lurked a lot, even played a bunch of mods. People were honest that time. In that age, people would go now and upvote Black Geyser no matter how many flaws it has. To fight the multi-national game industry like Electronic Arts.

With the death of RPGWatch, the era of indie dying begins as well. Again: Solasta isn't an indie. Realms Beyond, or Black Geyser, or Balrum, they are indie.

The last person leaving should turn off the lights.
 
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purpleblob

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So, users like @purpleblob1; and others have no clue how the world works. They are selfish. Why I'm saying this? I lurked the talks here back in 2018. @purpleblob1; had harsh complaints about Black Geyser even that time and someone asked her, why she expects the same standards from a game that is not made by Pillars Team, since the team has much smaller resources than that. She answered she doesn't care, there is market competition. So, she had zero sympathy, empathy. People like this are digging the grave of indies.

That's one hell of a generalisation.

Just because I have harsh opinion on 1 game, apparently I have no sympathy and empathy and killing indie games.

Before making statements like this, take a closer look at other games I play. I love Stardew Valley. I love Winkeltje. I enjoyed Wildermyth. I enjoyed Valheim.

Or are you going to say those are not indie games just like your statement of "Solasta is not indie".

Ten-fifteen years ago, Baldur's Gate modding Communities lived their golden age. I lurked a lot, even played a bunch of mods. People were honest that time. In that age, people would go now and upvote Black Geyser no matter how many flaws it has. To fight the multi-national game industry like Electronic Arts.

So upvoting games like Geyser because its an indie game regardless of what your real opinion is being honest? To fight the evil of EA?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and it sounds like you are upset someone doesn't support 1 indie game but don't go around making absurd generalisation because that's toxic.
 
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Nereida

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Long time lurker and old-school game here. [lots of words]

I find way more disgusting people trying to convince others to spend their money on something that's not worth it. More than disgusting, it's despicable. You know who else tries to convince people to spend money on things that are not worth it? Scammers and con-men. Luckily everyone is already aware of it, seeing the number of players this game has on Steam.

If you don't have the means or the tools to make a good game, then don't try to make it anyway and then look up with big puppy eyes begging for tips because what you made is objectively awful. Especially when you are not even trying to make anything of your own, just copying a successful formula with the same "BG" acronym, and piggybacking on the recent trend created by other companies like Obsidian or Larian. Zero creativity, zero talent, zero expertise. You will find no sympathy from me.
 
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JFarrell71

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That's one hell of a generalisation.

Just because I have harsh opinion on 1 game, apparently I have no sympathy and empathy and killing indie games.

Before making statements like this, take a closer look at other games I play. I love Stardew Valley. I love Winkeltje. I enjoyed Wildermyth. I enjoyed Valheim.

That was my main thought as I read their post. In my opinion, they're selling indie studios short. There are lots of really brilliant games out there that were made by small teams with small budgets. Wildermyth is a favorite of mine too. Other recent ones include Disco Elysium, Valgrus, Citizen Sleeper and AI War 2. There are tons of other examples, just from the last few years. These are some of the very best games I've played over the past few years, full stop.

There is a segment of the game buying public who think that it's important to give small developers brownie points just by virtue of them being small developers. While it's good to keep that in mind when creating expectations, I stop well short of operating like we have to champion every indie game because otherwise we're killing indie games... not every game is great, period, regardless of how big a budget was used to create it.

I have no opinion on Black Geyser specifically, as I have not played a minute of it or even followed it particularly closely. But I reject the idea that a project like Black Geyser can't be criticized or disliked because it's made by a small studio, if that's the honest opinion of the reviewer/player.
 
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bjon045

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I find way more disgusting people trying to convince others to spend their money on something that's not worth it. More than disgusting, it's despicable. You know who else tries to convince people to spend money on things that are not worth it? Scammers and con-men. Luckily everyone is already aware of it, seeing the number of players this game has on Steam.

Insinuating someone is a scammer because they like a game? How low can you go?

Here are some recent reviews (today and yesterday):

Lovely game, reminds me of the RPGs of old (as intended). Enjoyed every bit of it. Also very good and fast support. Really hope to see more of this studio in the future.

Better than POE Deadfire, weaker than Baldur's Gate!!! This Game is a hidden Treasure. It only scratches the itch of Baldur's Gate but it's miles better than Pillars of Eternity (no loredumping or weird races).
A must-have title if you are a CRPG fan. My only critique: the tutorial should be a bit shorter - we CRPG lovers know how to open the inventory :D

Very nostalgic if you were ever into the CRPGs of the late 90s and early 2000s. I really like the atmosphere and the developers have done an excellent job in crafting a well made game. I hope they continue to make games such as this. Recommended.

I guess they are all scammers? If you look at the last two months the number of positive reviews have outweighed the negative reviews. It has a summary score of "mixed" - you do know what mixed means right? It means some people will enjoy the game others won't.

It has 278 positive reviews and 113 negative. I'm really not seeing how the data backs up your sweeping statements?

I can only assume you are trolling at this point.
 
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lackblogger

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I can only assume you are trolling at this point.

My guess would be that the latest way to attack the game would be to try and get the thread locked down. Would help explain that new account suddenly popping up out of nowhere with a direct attack on another poster as well.

I'm not really one for conspiracy theories, but this game really is being intentionally ignored by pretty much the entire western media, both independent and mainstream. After I did my review I found out it was the only written review of the game in the English language bizarrely enough, and I wrote that a week or two after the game launched. Maybe even 3 weeks.

And looking at Metacritic, it still is. Gamebanshee haven't even reviewed it. Nor RPGCodex.

And I'm, like, HUH? I simply don't get it at all.

I browsed some of the negative reviews and pretty much all the points made by them are mentioned in my review and not unique to Black Geyser, such as Loading Times, something that both Pathfinder and Pillars are both also horrendous at.

You get the usual "game's too hard" negatives alongside "game's too easy" negatives, which you get with every game ever made. And the usual "story sucks" extremely subjective nonsense that you can also find on every game ever.

Very few of the negative reviews mention anything that is in anyway specifically unique to Black Geyser and wouldn't be things any RPG fan would be used to coping with playing in pretty much any RPG.

And because traffic to the game is so small, those odd one or two negatives stick out like a beacon. It's like a pile-on that's so easy it's sad rather than hilarious. And a pile-on for no apparent reason.

Maybe the developers are Putin fans and timed their game wrong and I'm stupidly trying to support a bunch of people who have been globally shadow banned? I dunno. There's definitely something fishy afoot that has nothing to do with the content of the game, that's for sure.

Maybe people got over-invested on shitting on the game before it was released, pre-empting some kind of kickstarter-con narrative and now feel too stupid to admit there was no con or that a normal game did materialise. In this regard I noticed the RPGCodex thread for the game had, like, 90 pages before release & then went dead as a doornail from release day. As if some kind of universal truth that it was shit was decided some time prior to release & the release would have to be ignored as it was no fun any more hoping for a disaster that didn't turn out to be a disaster.

Maybe it's just because they're a small european dev team and aren't part of the grand shill network, like what happened to Blackguards. I dunno.

But a RTwP companion-based party-based isometric cRPG in an era of much fandom for such games just gets completely and 100% ignored? WTF is going on there? Beats me.
 
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Nereida

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Insinuating someone is a scammer because they like a game? How low can you go?

Here are some recent reviews (today and yesterday):







I guess they are all scammers? If you look at the last two months the number of positive reviews have outweighed the negative reviews. It has a summary score of "mixed" - you do know what mixed means right? It means some people will enjoy the game others won't.

It has 278 positive reviews and 113 negative. I'm really not seeing how the data backs up your sweeping statements?

I can only assume you are trolling at this point.

Definitely the target audience of the game, nostalgic people that have no standards and are driven solely by nostalgia.

"Mixed" is a politically correct term that Steam uses in its rating system, it's pretty naive to get stuck in it as if it has any meaning.

"Mixed - 40 - 69% positive reviews". In this case, 56%, to be precise. Which makes for a significantly poor game (again, "Poor - of a low or inferior standard or quality"). That's as objective as the fact that the Earth orbits the Sun. And again, fortunately, the vast majority of people are aware of it, seeing that nobody is playing it.

While in general I dislike untalented copycats that prey on nostalgia, I have no particular beef with this game. I just invite people to get well informed about it, and research proper, trustable reviews, to make their own conclusion on whether they want to spend £30 (the price is another joke, by the way) on it.
 

largh

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Definitely the target audience of the game, nostalgic people that have no standards and are driven solely by nostalgia.

I understand where your criticism comes from and believe that all of us are adult enough to understand what this game is about. I personally have no opinion about the game nor the review. Still, implying that anyone else's taste/standard/opinion is poor, you just make a fool of yourself. You know well that people have different preferences and that the mainstream taste can be fairly tasteless for some - especially on a non-mainstream forum. Perhaps use different kind of argumentation in the future.

Back to the topic, did they really make a troll named Archangel? :lol:

So when you are on a business trip to close a deal for your employer, you need to help on a beggar that asks food from you (that he shouldn't do anyways but robbing people or collecting non-existing berries in the city if they are hungry)?

I should be the PR guy here but seriously, I'm going to suggest (seriously) the developers to add a little (and mostly harmless) troll with the name "Archangel" to one of the caves in Isilmerald ;)

Did the greed system "spoil looting" as some were concerned in that thread?
 
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wolfgrimdark

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The masses love McDonalds (based on burgers sold and how well they do) but personally I consider anyone who thinks McDonalds is quality food to have poor taste. Everyone knows this though - just because the masses like something doesn't make it quality. I would think someone who is an artist would know this better than anyone as art is very subjective. There is a lot of main stream "art" that sells and makes money but I wouldn't consider that "quality" art or "good taste" in art simply because it sells well. So many pieces of art are so subjective. I have seen art that the critics love that I can't stand and I have seen random user pieces on twitter I consider inspiring and truly amazing by some Jane Smith no one knows about.

I like this game myself although I don't hold it in as high of regard as some in this thread. I consider it an OK game. Not great but not horrible either. About average, 3/5 stars, a little above average. The steam reviews seem to reflect that middle ground area. I am enjoying playing it but do consider it niche and more for people who like those old style graphics and game play. Some nostalgia at work but I think the game itself stands on it's own okay too.

I think Centaur's post does more harm than good though. No game should ever be up voted, or down voted, for any reason except whether someone liked or disliked the game. People who down vote a game because they dislike the company, have some beef with a developer, or some other external reason … or people who up vote a game because they think Indie companies should be up voted to beat the corporate system, and not because the game is good … all do the whole rating system a major disservice. One should rate a game solely based on whether you like the game or not. Reviews should, hopefully, reflect ones true feelings but also provide some objective content if the game has problems.

As I said, I like the game. I don't, however, think it is anything special. I also don't think, as Centaur pointed out, feel indie games are dying out … if anything they are flourishing. I also see some indie games with really good quality work. That is subjective of course, as "good" is based on personal preference. I don't base my opinion on whether the masses approve of something or not for reasons outlined at the start of my post. I make my own opinion instead of letting the masses make it for me.

I usually refrain from voting if I don't like a game myself mainly because taste and liking something is subjective and personal preference, and overall don't enjoy being negative. If a game is really failing on objective criteria - like tons of bugs, crashes all the time, typo's spread out in the text, can't finish the game … show stoppers … then I would down vote and post a warning. It has to be extremely bad for me to do that though.

EDIT: Should also point out that if a game is simply okay I don't tend to give it a positive vote. I tend to only give votes if I feel really strongly one way or the other - love or hate a game in other words.
 
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lackblogger

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Back to the topic, did they really make a troll named Archangel? :lol:

Did the greed system "spoil looting" as some were concerned in that thread?

I can't remember any trolls at all, let alone named ones. But it would have been funny. Archangel used to post on the Watch but soon emigrated to the Codex where their brand of contrariness was more suited.

No, the greed system didn't spoil looting. There's an item you can get mid to late game which gives a greed penalty to looting, but it's not an everyone thing and those that get it will likely grump and moan about it, but then, in the next breath, complain that modern games just don't have good choices and consequences, yawn yawn.

Greed is mostly tied to quest rewards and the choices you make upon completing quests. And so you can choose how greedy you want to be. The extent to which any of it matters is more to do with roleplaying than power gaming min/maxing mechanics. At this point in time at any rate.
 
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Nereida

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I understand where your criticism comes from and believe that all of us are adult enough to understand what this game is about. I personally have no opinion about the game nor the review. Still, implying that anyone else's taste/standard/opinion is poor, you just make a fool of yourself. You know well that people have different preferences and that the mainstream taste can be fairly tasteless for some. Perhaps use different kind of argumentation in the future.

First of all, it's refreshing to see a well worded, reasoned post that disagrees with my point of view, so thank you for addressing the message, and not attacking the messenger.

I agree with the general sentiment of your post. I only disagree with "making a fool of myself", because that's still unnecessarily defensive, in an attempt to put the blinders on so you don't have to see the reality.

I always have said that having a taste for poor products is not a crime, and one does not go to jail for it. I have a taste for a certain food item that is of low quality, and not especially healthy. It still has a niche taste I like, feels good, and it's cheap to make. I won't go into details, because who cares, right? It's still a poor taste, and I'd be a fool to think that I have an excellent, quirky taste that others can't appreciate, just to feel better about myself.

With food, as with anything else in life, liking something that is "of inferior standard or quality", and calling it poor, is calling it by its name. It's not even an insulting, or demeaning term, it's neutral and descriptive. Calling it otherwise would be just sugar-coating.
 

largh

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I always have said that having a taste for poor products is not a crime, and one does not go to jail for it. I have a taste for a certain food item that is of low quality, and not especially healthy. It still has a niche taste I like, feels good, and it's cheap to make. I won't go into details, because who cares, right? It's still a poor taste, and I'd be a fool to think that I have an excellent, quirky taste that others can't appreciate, just to feel better about myself.

To call something "poor", you'd first define the scale. In case of food: "bad for your health" could be "poor food", but so could "cheap" because poor people could afford it, no? In case of games, I think the definition is more difficult. "Poor" in sense that it didn't cost much to make? "Poor mechanics"? @lackblogger; just stated that the game was "very good" :lol:
 
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lackblogger

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Thanks for tagging me @largh;. The thing is, @Nereida; just wants to repeat the fact that the game has 'mixed' reviews on Steam, there's nothing else to their posts, there's no deep discussion to be had. You reply to them and they'll just take the opportunity to repeat themselves with unending tautology.

The only way to reply to Nereida is with the sections of the post which relate to the contents of the game, which is zero. Which is why Nereida got so frustrated with me earlier in the thread.

If you yourself want a never ending debate with Nereida where you allow them to endlessly repeat the fact that Steam has mixed reviews for the game, you go right ahead. But it's going to ruin the thread for anyone looking for details about the game ;)
 
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largh

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I agree with the general sentiment of your post. I only disagree with "making a fool of myself", because that's still unnecessarily defensive, in an attempt to put the blinders on so you don't have to see the reality.

Answering this in a separate post in case you are answering my previous one simultaneously. I think one thing that is difficult on these forums is to express your meaning in a personal manner, yet within the rules set by the site and making people from different backgrounds understand your meaning. Checking all these boxes may well be a mission impossible. I can imagine where calling other's tastes "poor" in this and other threads comes from (assuming @wolfgrimdark;'s McDonald's example). Yet I read it "I am an elitist jackass who thinks everyone else is wrong and I am about to cancel them" even though you certainly do not imply that in other parts of your post. You see, we all interpret things between the lines differently and in my culture calling other's opinion/taste "poor" is seen offensive although I many times agree that people (other than me) have a poor taste :p
 
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wolfgrimdark

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Isn't "of inferior standard or quality" itself subjective itself at times? Sometimes it can be pretty clear that something is of subpar quality or inferior. A cheaply made product whose plastic handles break after the third use, a dial that falls off, etc.

I have no problems myself with saying I have poor taste in something. Its how that definition of what IS poor to begin with that is the problem. How does one define if something is low quality and inferior? If you define that based on whether the masses say it is low quality and inferior I personally think that is a gray area as the masses are not always the best judge of such things, although it can depend on what one is talking about.

I am more likely to give credit to consumer reports where everyone says this product is a piece of inferior crap and 70% or more of the reviews are about how the product broke, arrived in pieces, etc., as that tends to be more objective.

When it comes to things like art, music, food, games, books, I tend to find it more complicated and nuanced and less black and white.

Sure some of things do have some objective qualities to them. Some folks like tuna fish mixed with peanut butter which utterly grosses me out :p I would consider that poor taste but … whom am I to say it is poor taste if someone else likes it?

I consider myself to have poor taste in a variety of things (books especially as I love fluff fantasy adventure books that many folks consider to be crap). I wouldn't tell someone else who likes those books they have poor taste though, as maybe they don't see it that way.

I did mention McDonalds as poor taste. That is based on so many articles on the low quality of their food and being mostly empty of any value. It is very mainstream junk food. I like some junk food and consider it poor taste at those time. I am weird and like instant espresso. I don't consider that good taste on my part though.

Anyhow the more subjective a criteria is used to determine quality of something, which in turn is then used as the definition of poor or good taste, the less accurate it is as you are then using a potentially subjective definition of quality to then make a subjective statement about taste.

Sometimes it works but other times I feel it is more gray. If someone likes a bug-filled, crash causing, typo-ridden, game that is pretty objectively inferior based on a fairly objective view based on the games mechanics and how well it plays, outside of subjective aspects of the game, I would agree they have poor taste in games and must like it for their own personal reasons.

From what I have seen with this game, however, is that it stable, not a lot of bugs (at least I haven't found any), hasn't crashed, and seems to run okay. The rest of the content doesn't have any serious flaws I feel stand out objectively although may stand out subjectively based on view point and personal preference in games, writing, quests, combat, etc.

Can use combat as an example. I dislike twitch combat. That is subjective on my end as twitch combat isn't inherently good or bad on its own. Now if the twitch combat was clearly broken mechanically then that would be bad/inferior.

If a story is disjointed, follows no logic, has no internal consistency, is filled with typo's and grammar mistakes, and looks like it was written by a child, then I can take those as objective ways to measure its quality. I don't base quality based on more subjective things like content, genre, prose format, etc.

Ah well at the end of the day it doesn't matter. It's clear no one is going to change their mind on this topic from the sounds of it.

I mainly wanted to clarify I know I have poor tastes in some things, including some games (I consider my love of the SIMS 4 to be in poor taste myself; I am somewhat embarrassed how much I like the game), but don't think labeling others as having good or poor taste in something is black and white. Nor do I even consider it something that should be done. No problem for someone to state they have poor taste but telling someone else they have poor taste, especially when the criteria isn't always objective, usually comes across as rude.
 
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Nereida

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largh said:
You see, we all interpret things between the lines differently and in my culture calling other's opinion/taste "poor" is seen offensive although I many times agree that people (other than me) have a poor taste.

I feel the beef is with people being too proud to admit they like poor products, not with the word itself. To a lot of people "getting along" is more important than being blunt with facts, and I accept that, I just don't share that view of the world in which everyone has to walk on eggshells in case someone might feel offended. I could feel offended about many things, and I choose not to. Those who do can either stop being manbabies or whine on some internet forums about mean people using words that are too hurtful to their feeble feelings.

But it's going to ruin the thread for anyone looking for details about the game ;)

Anyone looking for details about the game would do well to look up proper, qualified reviewers, and watch a video or two on top. None of which can be found in this thread.
 
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