SW:TOR - No Homosexuality

[JemyM]

Its ok, jemy was just showing us that he is a closet case bigot. Kinda of funny how that word is his mantra against the world, yet he is actually one of them.

Because poking fun of 300 million people is just as "bigoted" as spreading disinformation about a small and often oppressed minority? Would you like to add any more wisdom to this thread while you're at it?

 

[Oxlar]

Because poking fun of 300 million people is just as "bigoted" as spreading disinformation about a small and often oppressed minority? Would you like to add any more wisdom to this thread while you're at it?

So the larger the group the more PC it is to be a bigot towards them? A bigot is a bigot is a bigot. Why don't you use your guy's substitution method on that? Hmmmm. Oh yeah, its perfectly fine to discriminate against white christian males. Hipocrisy must be lost on you.

Face it, you just got caught in your own trap. You about ready to gnaw off the leg and run away?

 

[Myrthos]

This thread has derailed a long time ago already and has nothing to do with the newsbit it is about. Let me just move it to the correct forum...... Done.

 

[nessosin]

Actually, a major component of the civil rights struggle was enacting anti-discrimination laws. Most countries have 'em. A hotel in Finland just got a pretty hefty fine because it refused a family suite to a lesbian couple (in a registered relationship) with two children, for example.

So even if the government isn't involved, it's legitimate to argue that it ought to be.

Damn, one leaves a forum thread for a few days and trolls sprout all over .

As I dont have all the time in the world to read this thread to the end Ill progressively try to enter once again into this fascinating discussion.

And as of now Ill just ask all of you wheter or not do you think that fining a private hotel, a private people, for their decision is normal? Because it seems to me that in pursuit of making homosexuals feel liked etc Finland just boarded violation of freedom of hers civilians-heterosexuals.

When I read things like this it becomes obvious to me that so called "civilized" western countries are becoming more and more a hostages of thier minorities.
Tension arises and rather than welcoming homosexuals(or any other minority) to society it may lead to further ostracism.

 

[Rithrandil]

And as of now Ill just ask all of you wheter or not do you think that fining a private hotel, a private people, for their decision is normal? Because it seems to me that in pursuit of making homosexuals feel liked etc Finland just boarded violation of freedom of hers civilians-heterosexuals.

When I read things like this it becomes obvious to me that so called "civilized" western countries are becoming more and more a hostages of thier minorities.
Tension arises and rather than welcoming homosexuals(or any other minority) to society it may lead to further ostracism.

And when they desegregated schools here in the states they violated the freedom of (certain) whites to be racist pricks. I'm comfortable with this. And besides, if members of YOUR specific demographic were refused services, ostracized, etc, etc, I'm sure you'd take offense.

If homosexuals were some sort of group that caused actual harm to society - like arsonists or members of NAMBLA - there'd be a perfectly reasonable desire to treat them as second class citizens. But homosexuality harms no one. So I'm sorry, the "right" to keep yourself "pure" of something that doesn't harm anyone doesn't exist.

 

[nessosin]

And when they desegregated schools here in the states they violated the freedom of (certain) whites to be racist pricks. I'm comfortable with this. And besides, if members of YOUR specific demographic were refused services, ostracized, etc, etc, I'm sure you'd take offense.

If homosexuals were some sort of group that caused actual harm to society - like arsonists or members of NAMBLA - there'd be a perfectly reasonable desire to treat them as second class citizens. But homosexuality harms no one. So I'm sorry, the "right" to keep yourself "pure" of something that doesn't harm anyone doesn't exist.

Ofcourse Id be offended! Not once was I offended in my life (even on this polite forum ) and has the state intervened? No! Because being offended is also part of life. State treats its citizens as childreen, not seeing the fact that rarely does usings threats, punishments result in making their childreen behave as it wants. Just let the things flow by itself, let the society learn about gays by itself not by having some hipocrite pricks dictating whats right and wrong or by paying large fine, which surely wont buy homosexuals any love from personel of this hotel or thier relatives.

 

[Rithrandil]

Ofcourse Id be offended! Not once was I offended in my life (even on this polite forum ) and has the state intervened? No! Because being offended is also part of life. State treats its citizens as childreen, not seeing the fact that rarely does usings threats, punishments result in making their childreen behave as it wants. Just let the things flow by itself, let the society learn about gays by itself not by having some hipocrite pricks dictating whats right and wrong or by paying large fine, which surely wont buy homosexuals any love from personel of this hotel or thier relatives.

So I take it you were against the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, and Women's Suffrage? If they deprived all Nessosins (I assume you are a WASP but I have no way of knowing this) of the right to get married you would sit there and smile and not protest about it? If Alabama decided to bring back white-only drinking fountains you'd be okay with it? How is enforcing constitutional rights to all American citizens "hypocritical"?

This goes beyond being offended, you are completely free to use various sexual or racial slurs in daily life. The government has the duty to enforce and protect the rights of its citizens. You have a right to be a bigoted prick, but the only "legal" discrimination homosexuals can currently face in the U.S. revolves around marriage and adoption rights. These restrictions are sooner or later going to repealed because of the flagrant violation of the 14th Amendment that they represent, by the way.

 

[Squeek]

And when they desegregated schools here in the states they violated the freedom of (certain) whites to be racist pricks.

Not at all. All of us have the right to think and feel however we like, even those of us who might be called racist (no, I don't consider myself one, btw). We just aren't allowed to behave all the ways we used to anymore. So some of our rights certainly have been limited for the sake of the overall good (and for the benefit of some members of our society in particular).

That's worthwhile, I think, even if it does step on some toes.

So you can still hate gays and believe they're harmful. But if you feel that way and want the law on your side, then you'll just have to make a case for what you think is right.

 

[JemyM]

So the larger the group the more PC it is to be a bigot towards them? A bigot is a bigot is a bigot. Why don't you use your guy's substitution method on that? Hmmmm. Oh yeah, its perfectly fine to discriminate against white christian males. Hipocrisy must be lost on you. Face it, you just got caught in your own trap. You about ready to gnaw off the leg and run away?

I do not even know if you are serious anymore.

No, I didn't discriminate "white Christian males", which is an accusation that doesn't make sense. I'm a white male myself. Christianity is an opinion, not a biological unchangeable trait like being homosexual or part of the Jewish race.
You can go ex-Christian over night, not to mention they are a humongous majority compared to the previous two, that have never been oppressed like Christianity itself oppressed homosexuals and Jews throughout the ages.

As for discriminating Americans, it's generally more accepted to discriminate a 300 million population, especially when it's done in a way that cannot be mistaken for satire. As for making fun of obesity, as JDR13 pointed out I am not exactly a lightweight myself, and I doubt there were many who took things as seriously as you did.

Having said that, the more you try to justify your values, the more you seem to lose it. It seems you are searching now, and you search far. This whole "accuse others for what they accuse you for" rhetoric doesn't really help you. "No, you did it" is childlike argumentation.

Overall it seems you never really spent some serious time on questioning yourself to develop your moral reasoning. Since you haven't you never spent any serious time to really challenge yourself and think on what's right and what's wrong, you have neither stable facts, nor a logical philosophical framework to justify your position. I know how frustrating it can be to defend values that you didn't reason yourself into in the first place.

 

[skavenhorde]

Nice little rant there skavenhorde, congratulations on bringing a whole new level of ignorance to this thread. I didn't take anything to a "new level", that was already done for me. I'm sorry that you're apparently too blind and stupid to see that.

*Edit* What really annoys me is how you just tried to make a connection between me and the previous topic. Other than commenting on one other person's post, I wasn't even part of that debate, and I've never said anything negative regarding the homosexual issue. It doesn't seem like you even know what's going on here...

Your right, it was unfair to throw you in with Oxlar and the others. I went back through the thread and saw that you pretty much took a neutral stance.

I really meant to stay out of this topic, but when you used a personnal pic from another thread I thought that was going a little too far. So what if he made fun of all americans. It's not like he posted a picture of you next to Jabba. That's all I was trying to say. Maybe I am stupid or blind but to me that is just going too far.

Anyways, sorry JDR my rant shouldn't of been directed at you and you're right I was stupid for doing so. It should of been directed at the people who fear for their sons and daughters.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

Christianity is an opinion, not a biological unchangeable trait like being homosexual or part of the Jewish race.

Currently homosexuality is unchangeable but in the future i doubt it. Currently there is research into this despite being opposed by the gay community. One of my earlier links had moths turned gay to solve a problem through pheromones.

Actually thats wrong. But here is a better link on the issue.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/evolution/gay-moth.htm/printable

 

[JDR13]

No problem skavenhorde, and I apologize for the "stupid and blind" comment. I said it purely out of anger, and it was way out of line.

The reason I was so annoyed by JemyM's post is because it's a repeating occurrence with him. He seems to have some type of personal issue with America\Americans in general.

 

[Oxlar]

Having said that, the more you try to justify your values, the more you seem to lose it. It seems you are searching now, and you search far. This whole "accuse others for what they accuse you for" rhetoric doesn't really help you. "No, you did it" is childlike argumentation.

Overall it seems you never really spent some serious time on questioning yourself to develop your moral reasoning. Since you haven't you never spent any serious time to really challenge yourself and think on what's right and what's wrong, you have neither stable facts, nor a logical philosophical framework to justify your position. I know how frustrating it can be to defend values that you didn't reason yourself into in the first place.

Gee, I can say pointless, baseless, subjective crap about you as well. Does it make me look smarter or give me the 'I Win' flag?

 

[Rithrandil]

Not at all. All of us have the right to think and feel however we like, even those of us who might be called racist (no, I don't consider myself one, btw). We just aren't allowed to behave all the ways we used to anymore. So some of our rights certainly have been limited for the sake of the overall good (and for the benefit of some members of our society in particular).

That's worthwhile, I think, even if it does step on some toes.

So you can still hate gays and believe they're harmful. But if you feel that way and want the law on your side, then you'll just have to make a case for what you think is right.

I think you missed my point entirely and ended up re-stating it in your post.

 

[Ubereil]

So the larger the group the more PC it is to be a bigot towards them?

Since when does cracking a joke about Americans being fat make you a bigot?

Übereil

 

[JDR13]

Since when does cracking a joke about Americans being fat make you a bigot?

It doesn't make you a bigot.....just an a$$hole.

 

[Ubereil]

It doesn't make you a bigot.....just an a$$hole.

If that.

Übereil

 

[DArtagnan]

See, now there's another example.

A comparatively large percentage of americans are fat.

That's a fact - but, in recognising that, am I a bigot or an asshole? I mean, I might be for other reasons (obviously, PJ's super test already proved that) - but what about this reason?

Personally, I have nothing against fat people - and I used to be one myself. But isn't it pretty objective to state that fat people, in general, are less physically attractive to the majority and that they're in more danger of suffering from health related diseases than people of average weight, all other things being equal?

I suspect that some people in this thread are confusing recognising something, with having a problem with that which you recognise. In fact, I'm almost certain that's the very core of the conflict in this debate.

Now, facts about homosexuals are certainly not as clear - but to deny there are certain difficulties faced BECAUSE of that sexual orientation is not necessarily the best reaction.

 

[JemyM]

The reason I was so annoyed by JemyM's post is because it's a repeating occurrence with him. He seems to have some type of personal issue with America\Americans in general.

I do not think 300 million people lose sleep over my sometimes politically incorrect jokes about them. Do not act all wounded about it.

 

[Prime Junta]

This is a bit of an interesting question, actually.

Because bigotry is about power relations. Being prejudiced against a hegemonic group is not as pernicious as being prejudiced against a subjugated group. Both are bad, of course, but one is worse than the other -- which is why 'bigotry' doesn't quite ring true when applied to anti-Americanism; 'prejudice' sounds better.