Baldur's Gate I is charming

[Dasale]

As I'm replaying BG1 I could only notice the high number of imperfections but there's one thing that keep me replaying it, it is charming.

It's not about graphics, not really about story, quests or companions but it's a whole, it's a mood. Quests have not a deep design but many has a mood, companions don't talk much but many has something attaching, the story is solid but objectively not that good if you try compare with a good novel, it's not a second degree fantasy game but it's also not a serious one, the fights have an average quality but can keep the attention and the focus.

I have read in a review or an article about CRPG that BG1 had no amazing qualities but had solid qualities on every aspect. In a way that's the key point of BG1 but the charming mood plus a feeling of adventure are for me the points making it special.

When looking back to CRPG I have played I wonder what other CRPG had similar qualities. The first two that came in mind was Eschalon Book I and Citadel: Adventure of the Crystal Keep. For both they merge (for me) a feeling of adventure and a cool mood that has something charming, nothing too serious but no heavy focus on humor.

When thinking about it more two other titles come in mind, Pool of Radiance the first, but I played it a too long time ago to be sure. Another title come in mind too, it's Drakensang. For this one it's an objective look at it that made me add it to the list. But for some reason, I don't feel it in the same category. Perhaps because the main story get a large importance and removes a bit the feeling of adventure.

It's strange but in no way I would range Avernum 1,2 or 5 in this category. But I would for the Sword Land Trilogy of Realmz.

A bit of nostalgia can be so good.

EDIT: What Fantasy novel I could have found charming in a roughly similar way even if it's not possible to compare. I'd say some Jack Vance writing, few novella, the Lyonesse series, perhaps The Dying Earth and The Big Planet, and in fact many more, he knew wrote non serious captivating adventures. And even those more SF oriented had somehow a Fantasy mood.

 

[vanedor]

I agree, the «mood» of bg1 is great. They manage to create a world which make sense. Probably the best low-level game... It doesnt try to get too epic. At the end of the game, you know you arent a demi-god able to single handedly beat an entire army. I remember how happy I was when I found my first magical +1 sword!

 

[JDR13]

You just figured this out?

 

[azraelck]

Some people are slow JDR.

 

[Madigan]

I Thought the game was pretty epic. Montaron with the Boots of speed and the Necklace of Missiles was the perfect assassin, Sneak in, Nuke the bad guys, and run out before the blast would catch up to you. Great Memories indeed! And a great atmosphere!

 

[xSamhainx]

finally played it all the way thru last year for the first time, and I have to agree - BG has a certain charm about it. Cant exactly be put into words, but it's definitely a very special game. Youre missing out if you dont play it!

 

[Maylander]

To me, the BG games represent the "jack of all trades" in the RPG genre. They are not the masters of anything, but they have everything, and do most things better than most.

I don't think we'll ever see titles quite as complete as the BGs again.

As for charm/atmosphere - I still consider Gothic 1 the all-time best game at this particular aspect, but BG certainly does it well (as with everything, BG is near the top, but not at the very top spot).

 

[xSamhainx]

begone, heretic!

**picks up phone and dials rent-a-mob***

 

[Dasale]

Some people are slow JDR.

Wooo what a bunch of pretentious people wandering here (well I suppose like on any forums but still). This worth a bash quote:

Do you know the site RPGWatch? It has a database game section. Here few quote from this database about Baldur's Gate 1:

Collectively called the Sword Coast, it attracts adventurers and evil alike, and is the backdrop for this epic adventure.

And I don't quote the whole section, but just read the full version to see how it gives a feeling of epic:

Chaos threatens to overwhelm the Sword Coast. The state of Amn is under siege to the south, the High Moor is being overrun in the north, and the region around Baldur's Gate is in turmoil.
.....
Yet, this contagion may be an early omen of some greater evil...

I don't want to know if this is just copy paste from the game box nor that it is totally true objectively. The result is totally wrong it gives the feeling the BG1 is the EPIC game which it isn't at all.

And vanedor pinpoint a very good point about BG1, it isn't really epic, in fact a large part is anti epic.

We need less anti hero in epic game and more hero in anti epic game. Well at least myself I need that. And that doesn't mean non Fantasy game (I dislike a lot the realistic approach of Gothic series for example).

 

[Coldcall]

Yes BG1 has a certain charm hard to describe. I know a lot of people prefer BG2 but i still llike the first game best.

It felt very open and much more so than more recent Bioware games. I loved how you could basically march from map to map without any real direction and just discover the world on your own without being told where to go all the time. I like it that often directions from quest givers were crap and more of a general pointing in that direction.

Oh the wonder of bumping into Drizzt in the woods and then killing him for his swords and armour

 

[Dasale]

…
It felt very open and much more so than more recent Bioware games. I loved how you could basically march from map to map without any real direction and just discover the world on your own without being told where to go all the time. I like it that often directions from quest givers were crap and more of a general pointing in that direction.
…

I think the multiple area system has many positive points, one is to match very well with vague general directions without to require any help arrow. Many BG1 quests look a lot more like rumors and it's up to you to discover if it's more than rumor or not.

The art of Area shaping and filling is also an art you'll hardly find in modern CRPG. The only exception I see are Gothic 1& Gothic 2+NOTR, and both Gothic 3 and Riven (that I didn't play much) seem to me not as well crafted. Gothic 3 is often empty and Risen gives often a feeling of restrained area. But if Gothic 1&2 achieved well the area crafting they are also small games that don't build well the feeling of adventure nor that you have a whole world area to explore.

The last game I played capturing well this feeling of adventure and freedom without to give a feeling of a short area or an empty world, is Avernum 1 (and not the 2 and 5). I don't add Avernum 1 in my charming CRPG list because, well because.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I still believe it would have been far more epic if there had been more "social encounters".

To me, BGI is nothing more than a series of fights connected together with a bigger and several smaller stories. No social interaction, please.

Maybe the devs saw this (I don't know) and invented the thing which still impresses me deeply to this day : The "internal chats" within the group, depending on the dispüosition of the cvharscters (don't remember a better word for it right now) : Neutral, good, evil, chaotic …

This is something I have seen ONLY in BG and in BGII, and it still astonishes me that no-one has tried this after that - of the games I know and have played myself.

Maybe no dev wants that because fighting has still the highest priority in "role"-playing games ?

"I fight, therefore I play a role" ?

 

[Dasale]

No social interaction, that's very rude. You interact with many NPC and some multiple times. I don't see much what you mean.

For companions internal chats, yes that's probably one of the rare creation point brought by Baldur's Gate 1. I'm sure an older game did it few time but not developed it.

I agree it's a great point but I like too when companions comment something, an area, an event, give an advice and more. And this, I have seen it in older games but never much developed. Only some more modern games develop it and mainly from Bioware. Internal chats is a great way to develop companions personalities. For the evil/good management in BG series, I don't like that in general and not more in internal chats. People don't need an evil/good system to start cat&dog chats or more friendly chats.

DAO develop very well the internal chats of companions, there are so many between all companions that it's great even at replay. But they don't lost control often and some nasty (non serious) Xzar or Montaron are really missing in DAO.

Party with companions is also a CRPG approach I like a lot and not many game use it. For example I'd love that Avernum series evolves to something like that.

But there's a huge drawback, it's how much time resources and efforts you put in companions. It's as much time not spend to tune better fights, craft better area, populate better the world, design better puzzles and quests, multiply stories and more.

 

[JDR13]

As for charm/atmosphere - I still consider Gothic 1 the all-time best game at this particular aspect, but BG certainly does it well (as with everything, BG is near the top, but not at the very top spot).

I agree on that, but Gothic is also a totally different type of game, and really isn't comparable to BG. I also think it's easier to create a great atmosphere in games where you're in control of a single character as opposed to a party.

I don't want to know if this is just copy paste from the game box nor that it is totally true objectively. The result is totally wrong it gives the feeling the BG1 is the EPIC game which it isn't at all..

Well that may be *your* opinion.

 

[Dasale]

Well that may be *your* opinion.

That is a little easy and quick.
So go on, what you feel epic? Candlekeep, Beregost? Nashkell and its mine? Course few ghost in an old school that nobody care, help a poor isolated Halfeling town?

Sure anything can be look at as subjective but that's an easy argument, so explain or list what you found epic in BG1 large first half if not more.

 

[JDR13]

Sure anything can be look at as subjective but that's an easy argument, so explain or list what you found epic in BG1 large first half if not more.

There's no need to list anything, the fact that it's subjective was exactly my point. You were the one who tried to state an opinion as if it was fact.

 

[Dasale]

There's no need to list anything, the fact that it's subjective was exactly my point. You were the one who tried to state an opinion as if it was fact.

What an empty arguing. Yes it's an obvious fact, I'm surprise anybody deny it, did you even ask yourself the question? Are you really feeling a large first half of Baldur's Gate is Epic?

There's nothing epic in controlling low level character, not much people care of you, you aren't involved in huge battles, all your quests are very localized and you involvement in larger event isn't focused if not hidden. What you find epic there? I wonder.

 

[JDR13]

What an empty arguing. Yes it's an obvious fact, I'm surprise anybody deny it, did you even ask yourself the question? Are you really feeling a large first half of Baldur's Gate is Epic?

The only thing here that's "obvious" is your opinion. I'm sorry if you can't see that, but I'm not going to argue about something that insignificant.

 

[Dasale]

The only thing here that's "obvious" is your opinion. I'm sorry if you can't see that, but I'm not going to argue about something that insignificant.

So I will never see any explanation why it isn't obvious that a large first half of BG1 isn't epic at all. I gave some arguments and don't care about arguing about arguments so you are right it's fine close this.

 

[Dasale]

I agree on that, but Gothic is also a totally different type of game, and really isn't comparable to BG. I also think it's easier to create a great atmosphere in games where you're in control of a single character as opposed to a party.

Well that may be *your* opinion....