Replaying Might and Magic VII

[JDR13]

Grrr.. all this talk about M&M is making me want to bust out my Platinum Edition and start reinstalling them.

I've never played very far into any M&M game, but I really enjoyed what I played of VI. The problem is those games are so darn big, I just don't have the time for them now.

 

[Maylander]

If you decide to try them out, I recommend MM7 - while it's certainly huge, it's not on par with MM6 (which is redicilously big). Also, it has a lot of improvements. The only drawback of starting with MM7 over 6 is actually not the story (HoMM3 main campaign is between them, so they have two seperate stories), but party building: Building a party in MM6 is a whole lot easier (less classes, anyone getting a skill can master it, etc).

Of course, this is why I started the topic in the first place.

In any case, I have now cleared all of Harmondale and Barrow Downs, including the Stone City quest. It seems a lot easier than I remember. I currently play patch 1.1 with GreyFace 1.4 installed, did any one of those patches do any balancing? It's certainly not the party strength doing it, because I'm fairly weak at this point (magic is rubbish in the beginning).

Also, if I were to try out a melee party, how would it look? I'm thinking Knight, Archer, Cleric and.. ? Thief? Monk? Paladin? Another Knight?

Oh, what about oozes? How to handle them as a melee party? Having a single Archer will do later on, due to master elemental magic, but you bump into those things already in Harmondale..

Edit: I assume Fire Aura (the enchant-weapon-with-fire-spell) is the key?

Update: It seems I've been tricked! The character chart on GameFaqs listed Disarm Expert as a basic skill for Archer/Ranger. When I finally found the trainer, he told my Archer that he needed to be "Master Archer or Sniper", which is the highest promotion! No idea how far Rangers need to progress to get it. Anyhow, Expert Disarm that late in the game is completely useless. Seems I'm going to get blown up all over the place untill I get Master Earth. Such a shame, or Archer would've been the perfect replacement for Thieves (you can get by just fine with Expert Disarm untill Master Earth if you put some skill points into it).

Anyone know when Rangers get access to it? I don't trust the chart on GameFaqs anymore.

 

[Maylander]

Just a small question: Is there any way to fix the "movement bug"? Basically, it's as if my characters are always moving either slightly left or right (changes when I enter/exit buildings) when I move forward or backward. Also, whenever my characters are moving slightly to the left (when I move forward/backward), I can't strafe right, and vice versa. Very annoying, as I like to use strafe a lot.

It's almost as if I'm constantly strafing in one direction, meaning I can't strafe in the other direction.

For turning, I use Smooth, as both 16x and 32x is impossibly fast (characters spin a good 360 every time I even touch my left or right keyboard arrow).

Anyone know how to fix this?

 

[azraelck]

While I have experienced the "wandering" party, which is the party's movement not lining up with the dungeon walls perfectly, I have never seen an instance where I couldn't strafe either direction, assuming there was open ground. I'll have to try and reproduce it later.

All this talk made me load it up and start a new party last night. I fully intend to try a Monk out on this run. But I may rebuild my party a time or two before getting serious about it.

 

[Maylander]

Yes, not lining up correctly is fairly common in MM6 and 7 (not sure about 8), but this is different. In the Red Dwarf Mines in Bracada it was horrible, had a hard time getting around corners because the party kept moving in strange directions. In fact, I think it started there, though I'm not sure.

I run 1.1 with GreyFace patch 1.4. Back in the days, I only played the game out-of-the-box. Not sure if either one of those patches are causing the problems.

 

[Dark Savant]

You should report this on CH forum and maybe Grayface can fix it
http://www.celestialheavens.com/for...8&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Also there is no need to apply the official 1.1 patch before Greyface 1.4 as it is already included in his patch.

 

[magerette]

@Maylander: I'm looking at my original M&MVII manual skill chart by class, and it also gives Disarm Trap as a basic skill for all Archer types, however, none, including Ranger can get higher in it than expert. The chart of course, doesn't say anything else. Since expert is the highest level, it may actually be properly linked to the final class promotion, which I agree makes it pretty useless.

AFA the 'constant strafing' problem, I've never experienced that one.

 

[Zaleukos]

Grrr.. all this talk about M&M is making me want to bust out my Platinum Edition and start reinstalling them.

I've never played very far into any M&M game, but I really enjoyed what I played of VI. The problem is those games are so darn big, I just don't have the time for them now.

I have a problem finishing them too, but not so much due to size as due to the ridiculous increase in difficulty towards the end. I only managed to finish VIII. Got close to the end in III (got fed up with the game not giving me enough money to pay for levelups), and about halfway through VI (couldnt take that bloody castle atop a hilltop) and VII (a suboptimal party simply got outgunned by liches after choosing the light side).

 

[Maylander]

You should report this on CH forum and maybe Grayface can fix it
http://www.celestialheavens.com/for...8&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Also there is no need to apply the official 1.1 patch before Greyface 1.4 as it is already included in his patch.

That's why I'm running 1.1, I simply patched the GreyFace patch over my vanilla installation. I'll report it and see if there's anything that can be done.

@Maylander: I'm looking at my original M&MVII manual skill chart by class, and it also gives Disarm Trap as a basic skill for all Archer types, however, none, including Ranger can get higher in it than expert. The chart of course, doesn't say anything else. Since expert is the highest level, it may actually be properly linked to the final class promotion, which I agree makes it pretty useless.

AFA the 'constant strafing' problem, I've never experienced that one.

I have Disarm, I just can't get it to Expert (which is the level above basic) untill I reach Master Archer/Sniper. Only Thieves and Ninjas can get it above Expert at all. However, GameFaqs says a plain Archer or Ranger (no upgrades) can get Expert Disarm, which is clearly wrong (at least in the case of the Archer, not sure about Ranger, which is why I asked).

Edit: Here is the chart I am referring to:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/143119/27762

It says:
Disarm Trap
Archer - E
Warrior Mage - E
Master Archer - E
Sniper E

E = Expert, obviously. Same table for Rangers.

 

[magerette]

That's the same chart as the manual afaict, Maylander. Looks like "expert" may only come with the promotion, then. There's always the +skills items, I guess, or picking up an NPC that boosts the skill. I remember being very disappointed in my archer and don't use the character anymore---but that was mostly because he was so underpowered as a straight up archer, even at GM. Also, no mana for his paltry magic skills either.

 

[dyze]

@ 6 vs 7:
I feel that 7 is, by far, the stronger game. It has everything you could ever want from an RPG. It's in the same category as Baldur's Gate 2, being virtually complete (always room for improvement and all that, but realistically it's pretty much as good as it gets).

The extra classes, the important choices (not just light or dark, but also political choices between factions), the areas. It all feels a lot more solid.

for me, 6 is the superior game. while 7 has some better options for character developments, i feel that the world is so much better designed in 6 than 7, all aspects considered.
primarily the dungeons is far superior in 6. almost every one feels well planned out, and has some nice puzzles, while in 7 they're much more straight forward a to b stuff, and the actual graphical design feels much less interesting here..

in 6, the colors are also much more vibrant, which much better matches the mood
of the game. 7 is a dull, gray and depressing place in comparison.

overall, it just feels to me that more time was spent on 6 than 7. either that or it was a better team on 6.

 

[Maylander]

Level 40-something now. So far, so good. I honestly think I must've been confusing MM6 and 7 difficulty, because I have very few problems except against Queens of the Night (they do redicilous damage).

An incredible game, I think I'll do a 2nd run soon. Also, I started a party in MM6 (Paladin, Sorcerer, Cleric, Knight). Looks like it's going to be great fun. MM6 actually has smoother controls and generally a "cleaner" feeling, as if it was a bit more polished.

I'll probably dig up MM8 as well during this nostalgia run, but I'll stay away from Dragons to get a little challenge. I'll definetly pick up Maylander though, a level 15 Cleric (where I got my nickname actually).

 

[JDR13]

I just received the strategy guide for M&M IX that I purchased on Ebay. I now have the guides for VI, VII, and IX. Just need to find one for XIII now...

 

[dteowner]

I don't remember there being one for MM8. Back in the day, I always picked up the guides for RPGs so I could go over them after my first win to see if I missed anything. I would have picked up the MM8 guide had I seen one.

Hmmm, looking on Amazon, I see that one DOES exist. MM8 was really easy, so maybe I just didn't feel the need for a guide after winning.

 

[JDR13]

Yep, Prima made guides for M&M VI through IX. The guide for VIII seems pretty hard to find for some reason.

Very nice guides though, well over 300 pages each, and very detailed. I like them as collector's items.

 

[Thrasher]

Well written game guides are worth it. Good to know that these exist for the completists in us.

 

[JDR13]

Good to know that these exist for the completists in us.

Or to read while we're in the bathroom…

 

[Lann5555]

This thread inspired me to reinstall this game and give it another shot. I never finished it when I was a kid cause it got quite difficult at the end.

Seems like once again I won't be able to finish it though, because it seems either my game is bugged or all the information about the game here is wrong. The general consensus seems to be that party formation doesn't matter as each guy is just as likely to get hit. However, in my game, the guy on the far right is getting hit 100% of the time. In fact, I stripped all my other characters of their armor and stopped putting SP into defensive skills cause they are not getting hit ever anyways. Unfortunatly, now that I reached the tougher parts of the game it seems I will be stuck once again. The guy on the right of my party is unfortunatly my cleric, so he is always the one taking all the damage and always the first one dying when things get rough. The guy next to him is my sorcerer who dies 2 seconds after the cleric, because once the cleric dies he gets all the attacks on him. In the mean time my monk and knight to the left are just chilling.

Could this be a bug? I basically just have a vanilla install with the latest Greyface patch. Guess I'll create a new game in a while and see if the same thing happens there as well

 

[Thrasher]

Ouch. I'd like to hear if anyone else is having this problem and if it is a general problem with the M&Ms.

 

[sherwinz28]

I had that problem when I would fight tough enemies without using strategy…what I like to do is weaken enemies from further away using mass damage spells like fireball and let my knight/paladin throw some arrows then let them close in when I break out the swords/staffs/knives/maces…

But my sorcerer tends to be the first to die if ever…rule #1 always have the party spells on such as bless/wizard eye…etc. Not haste though as that weakens your characters when its finished (unless I'm using it incorrectly).

I just started playing MMVI with the TCC Part 1 add on.