Those angry worshipers

[hishadow]

BBC has new Louis Theroux documentary on one of those religious fundamentalist sect in the US. This is a follow up of the old documentary and focus on family members that has recently defected. The sects mantra is that the apocalypse is already underway and that you must guard against the "earthly" influences on the flesh, and the church is the last sanctuary from the ongoing doom.

If you substract their offensive external behaviour like picketing funerals, they're very much like some of our local christian communities like Jehovah's Witnesses here in Norway. Many of the topics like cutting ties to children who leave the church happends here too. Jehovah's Witnesses for instance was also obsessed with the approaching apocalypse and the need to redeem yourself. A slightly old case but worth telling was of a family man in Norway who got really worried about this. He were having doubts about if his wife and children really could be redeemed. He figured out a way though, using a loophole, that if he murdered them, they would be spared and granted access to heaven. In the end he broke down and defected from the church. Last I heard, he spent his time informing others about the dangers of sects and blind belief.

The video is a good reminder about religious fundamentalism. Especially for those concerned with muslim fundamentalism. It's worth noting that the people of this sect come well prepared for life, many with a college or a university education, though some are born into it as shown in the documentary.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

That would be the westboro baptist church. Not all fundamentalist denominations are like that though. As a christian we are expected to spread the "word" however we are not supposed to judge those reject it. We are supposed to let them be and we continue to do what we are doing lettign God judge them in the end. Revelations 22:11.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[hishadow]

With everyone his own authority on god you can't really expect people to revise their belief when you've been taught to fear "outside" influences. I personally was intrigued by how "normal" they were, but with this idea seeded their mind that makes their behaviour wholly justified. From my viewpoint living in the "bible belt" of Norway, I see many similarities with what's discussed in the documentary. They might keep to themself here, but their viewpoints and commitment are just as strong.

 

[blatantninja]

I'm no fan of the Jehovah's Witness faith, but Westboro Baptist makes them look completely rational and inclusive. I've been approached by JW's before (and had a good friend that was one in high school), and ever time they've been respectful that I believe different. Westboro Baptist are the scum of the earth.

 

[Heronblade]

That would be the westboro baptist church. Not all fundamentalist denominations are like that though. As a christian we are expected to spread the "word" however we are not supposed to judge those reject it. We are supposed to let them be and we continue to do what we are doing lettign God judge them in the end. Revelations 22:11.

I've always been amazed at the ability of the faithful to pick and choose scripture that happens to suit their purpose and preconceptions. Where was that passage being read during the time of the Spanish Inquisition for example? Or now, with these Baptists?

 

[JemyM]

The Bible is the great book of multiple choices.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

I've always been amazed at the ability of the faithful to pick and choose scripture that happens to suit their purpose and preconceptions. Where was that passage being read during the time of the Spanish Inquisition for example? Or now, with these Baptists?

Yes that is rather unforunate. It is even in the last few verses of the bible.

The spanish inquisition was actually a myth spread by the Queen of England a while back to incite hatred for the Spanish. These people are simply using the old testament to justify themselves. The new testament is about people being able to become good people even in the last few hours of their lives and about peopel being able to resist temptation.


A bit about the spanish inquisition here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

My friend is telling me that the Westboro Baptist church are really a bunch of trolls. The father and 9 of his 12 children are lawyers. And apparently one of his funders is a gay rights activist. It is apparently to privide sympathy for gay people. Phelps apparently has nothing against gay people accordign to his friends an it is all an act. Pretty impressive troll if you ask me.

 

[Lucky Day]

don't normally comment on these things but the Westboro Baptist Church, they really take the cake and are definitely beyond the norm. They remind me of the types that blame the Jews for everything.

One of the things that most people don't understand is why they are allowed to consistently say and do the horrible things they do - the state of Kansas very much protects freedom of speech, even for these idiots. I personally think there's something mentally wrong with Phelps.

Two things on that tho, to paraphrase Sarah Palin (who was talking about the Islamic Community Center in New York City), you may be allowed to do something; but it doesn't make it right. This is the heart of the doctrine of Christian Liberty. Second, its as my pastor stated to wake up my church: he could easily get 100 people out to picket the local porn shop; but try to get that many people out to a prayer meeting.

 

[Tragos]

Yeah they are trolls and they have based their action on the very absurd laws US has . I think a nice pay back would be atheists protesting outside their church every Sunday morning .

 

[Pladio]

Yes that is rather unforunate. It is even in the last few verses of the bible.

The spanish inquisition was actually a myth spread by the Queen of England a while back to incite hatred for the Spanish. These people are simply using the old testament to justify themselves. The new testament is about people being able to become good people even in the last few hours of their lives and about peopel being able to resist temptation.


A bit about the spanish inquisition here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend

You should read this one instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

I am sure the the Inquisition has been somewhat exaggerated, but to pretend that it was a myth is nothing more than blatant revisionism of history.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

You should read this one instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

I am sure the the Inquisition has been somewhat exaggerated, but to pretend that it was a myth is nothing more than blatant revisionism of history.

I wish it was, i dont like cathlocisim because it add books which they werent supposed to do after "revelation" but that is another story. Note how there are no relics of the Spanish Inquisition pictured in that wiki.

That said I am sure that they provoked people into converting or leave the country. But i have no proof that they had actual torture devices as the English believe.

 

[DArtagnan]

Without our religions, human beings would just invent something else to be ignorant for.

It's in our nature to pretend, ignore, and deny - and religion is just one way of practicing our nature.

Scentists are doing it daily.

Assuming it's not based in reality

 

[blatantninja]

Here is an article I found on the 'Black Legend'

The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition

Not saying it is 100% accurate or unbiased, but it seems pretty reasonable. From it, the Inquisition DID exist, and between 3000 and 5000 people died during it, just not the hundreds of thousands (or more) you hear about.

I had a prof in grad school that did some research into the witch trials of medieval and Renaissance Europe. She found some interesting things. The main one I remember was that by and large, women that were found guilty of witchcraft, and thus their estates were forfeited over to the Church (often with a tax to the government), were wealthy widows. Essentially, it was a vicious asset grab. Sounds about par for the course of the Church and government of the times unfortunately.

 

[Heronblade]

Considering the fact that all European governments since before the fall of Rome up until about 250 years ago used various means of pain and death on subjects not conforming to their beliefs, it seems somewhat unlikely to me that an organization said to be particularly brutal about the matter was the only one with clean hands.

 

[Heronblade]

don't normally comment on these things but the Westboro Baptist Church, they really take the cake and are definitely beyond the norm. They remind me of the types that blame the Jews for everything.

One of the things that most people don't understand is why they are allowed to consistently say and do the horrible things they do - the state of Kansas very much protects freedom of speech, even for these idiots. I personally think there's something mentally wrong with Phelps.

Two things on that tho, to paraphrase Sarah Palin (who was talking about the Islamic Community Center in New York City), you may be allowed to do something; but it doesn't make it right. This is the heart of the doctrine of Christian Liberty. Second, its as my pastor stated to wake up my church: he could easily get 100 people out to picket the local porn shop; but try to get that many people out to a prayer meeting.

Yes, there are a few cases where I honestly wish we could make an exception to the freedom of speech and religion laws. Of course, aside from the political fallout, any exceptions made for these extreme cases can be applied/stretched to more mundane ones.

 

[blatantninja]

Yes, there are a few cases where I honestly wish we could make an exception to the freedom of speech and religion laws. Of course, aside from the political fallout, any exceptions made for these extreme cases can be applied/stretched to more mundane ones.

I really don't see how they get away with it. We do not have completely free speech, there are limits. The stereotypical 'you can't yell fire in a crowded theater' scenario for instance. These people are intentionally inflicting emotional harm on grieving families during their funeral protests. That can cause physiological damage. You can generally be held liable for that, yet these assholes keep winning the lawsuits against them.

They are pure evil.

 

[Rithrandil]

If we let the Nazis march through Skokie we should allow the WBC to protest.

 

[blatantninja]

I think there is a difference between a demonstration like that (despicable as it was), and one that is targeting a specific person or person that are not in the public eye.

 

[Damian Mahadevan]

They are showing how far they ca push the first(?) amendmant apparently.