I said "I think", twice, in that sentence you quoted. That's not an assertion of fact. I was just going from memory, and it was pretty clear I wasn't sure. Wasn't it? However, that was countered by the "fully 3D movement" claim. Which I ceded even though I was sure, and am sure, that's false. It's not a 3D game engine. It's a 2D game engine that uses offsets to create the illusion of a 3D environment, just like Doom did. Compare to that video of System Shock I linked earlier, and I suspect you'll see the difference right away.
Sure, except the way the graphics are drawn has absolutely nothing to do with character movement, and we're discussing character movement. I thought I already covered this earlier, then you came back and said you weren't talking about graphics. But now you are again? Yes, M&M 6-8 is not a 3D game engine but it still does allow "full 3D movement", in the sense that Maylander meant when he used the phrase, which is: you can move at any angle and any distance you please.
The wording is important. Fortunes and reputations were made and lost on such wording, when these games were new. My wording was correct. And you're the one who pushed it, so why accuse me of being the one who is going to great lengths?
I "pushed it"? Here's me "pushing it":
CraigCWB: "And speaking of grid squares, I don't think the newer MM games did away with them, I think they just let you travel (one square at a time) at angles other than 90, 180, 270 or 360."
^ you're 100% wrong
Me: "MM6-9 all had full 3D movement. "
^ simply trying to let you know you're wrong (yes, sue me for using Maylander's term that you don't like)
You know what? I didn't even get argumentative about that, but Wolfenstein 3D had the 360 degrees of motion with variable travel distance in 1992, and Doom had a game engine that did everything MM6 did in 1993, so there's no part of that argument which is really valid. But now I'm arguing about something that doesn't even bother me, and I'm arguing with a third party that I didn't even want to argue with. Why does it have to be this way?
What, or with whom, are you even arguing? I'm completely lost at this point. Why does it even matter what shooter had what, in what year? We were talking about what M&M games had.
You can't have it both ways. You say people understood what he really meant, even though the term was wrong, and then you say the term was not wrong?
Well, as you can see in my previous post, I changed my mind on the term being misleading. I now think it's fine. Either way, from what I can tell, you're the only person who didn't understand exactly what he meant.
There was a time when these arguments about game engine technology were non-trivial. Both Looking Glass Studios and id Software became industry legends because of their game engine technology, and they did it with these very releases we are arguing about, and these very engines we are arguing about. There's no point in us here, now, rehashing discussions from two decades ago when we aren't going to add anything to what was said a long time ago. There's also no point in us agreeing to be wrong about what's accepted in the industry as fact.
Don't get what this has to do with anything.
Also @DArtagnan, yeah, guess I forgot there was a look up/down key in M&M 6-8. Still don't remember how much freedom you had when doing it. Either way, as you said it's irrelevant.