What games are you playing now?

That's cool. I did the same with my gaming mouse before. Played through Gothic 1 with most of the functions tied to the various mouse buttons. That does work well.

I'm personally not a fan of keyboard controls for really complex stuff. I'm not a huge fan of function or number buttons tied to various actions, so on a touchscreen it works better if I just click it, or use the mouse and manually activate it when on PC. That's also why I'm digging the Steam Controller so much, because I can easily reach and remember all the functions when I need them, whether it's #s 1-8, F keys or what have you.

IIRC, the function keys are not bindable in BG - or I would have used custom bindings.

But a keyboard/mouse is so vastly superior in this genre, that it boggles the mind that anyone could seriously tell themselves a touch screen is better.

Then again, some people swear controllers are better than M/KB for shooters. Of course, they're never very good players, so ;)

Nah, it's all about personal preferences.

Tablets are practical and comfortable - and BG is pausable, so it's not like you can't solve any problem as long as you're willing to make the necessary concessions.

Personally, I find that I can't enjoy complex or immersive games when I'm lying in bed or sitting on a couch. I get too comfortable and sort of lose engagement with the whole thing.

Nah, for the best games - I really need to have focus, sit at my desk and have the best tools for the job.
 
On PC I don't use keyboard + mouse anymore since I switched to the Steam Controller. I can map everything I need directly to the controller, as well as create various modifier buttons, like using the left and right grips to change the functions of the buttons or even entire action sets with a button press. I like having #s 1-4 correspond to the 4 face buttons, for example, and then use a Left Grip modifier to change them to 5-8 as needed. And there's just a whole grip of other reasons I prefer the Steam Controller over kb+m, which I actually grew to love more than controllers for years now. But once I tried the Steam Controller it was over.

Haven't played FPS's and probably never will. But for competitive basketball games, I'd take the controller over anything else, for sure. Although that's kind of a given since I don't think many people are comfortably playing sports games using a kb+m. :)

But uh, for reading/tablet gaming I like to get comfy on a couch or bed (not sleep-type comfy, just relaxed and sitting up) and get into it. A good pair of headphones helps, and it becomes a pretty great thing. Similar to using a laptop to game (which I also used to do a lot of) but much less bulky and easier to manage.
 
On PC I don't use keyboard + mouse anymore since I switched to the Steam Controller. I can map everything I need directly to the controller, as well as create various modifier buttons, like using the left and right grips to change the functions of the buttons or even entire action sets with a button press. I like having #s 1-4 correspond to the 4 face buttons, for example, and then use a Left Grip modifier to change them to 5-8 as needed. And there's just a whole grip of other reasons I prefer the Steam Controller over kb+m, which I actually grew to love more than controllers for years now. But once I tried the Steam Controller it was over.

Haven't played FPS's and probably never will. But for competitive basketball games, I'd take the controller over anything else, for sure. Although that's kind of a given since I don't think many people are comfortably playing sports games using a kb+m. :)

But uh, for reading/tablet gaming I like to get comfy on a couch or bed (not sleep-type comfy, just relaxed and sitting up) and get into it. A good pair of headphones helps, and it becomes a pretty great thing. Similar to using a laptop to game (which I also used to do a lot of) but much less bulky and easier to manage.

To each his own and all that :)
 
To each his own and all that :)

Exactly ... I mean, I played keyboard only in FPS even up through my first run through Jedi Knight in 1997 so ... I suppose anything is possible. Of course, looking back I find it amazing that I managed to do it, but whatever ...
 
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Exactly … I mean, I played keyboard only in FPS even up through my first run through Jedi Knight in 1997 so … I suppose anything is possible. Of course, looking back I find it amazing that I managed to do it, but whatever …

I did it until I read an article about Quake in 1996 - where id Software said they'd designed the game around the new mouselook paradigm.

I've always preferred to play games the way the developers intended, so I forced myself to adapt to mouse/kb. Needless to say, it wasn't long until it became very clear that it was extremely superior to pure keyboard :)
 
Sorry - not going to debate whether a game is better played on the control system it was designed for or not … that just isn't worth even 5 seconds.

By the way, I'd say this is worth at least 5 seconds, considering the games I mentioned *were* designed for touchscreen. :)

If you meant the control scheme they were *originally* designed for, that makes more sense. But just because the original control scheme was designed a certain way, doesn't mean a new control scheme for the same game can't be as good or even better.

Just a quick example, but I probably wouldn't play Gothic now with the original keyboard controls. For me, it was much better to use a mouse mapped with many of the functions instead. Now, I've moved to a controller that maps the functions. Both of those, I feel, were upgrades for me personally from the original designed controls. But to each their own and all that. :)
 
By the way, I'd say this is worth at least 5 seconds, considering the games I mentioned *were* designed for touchscreen. :)

If you meant the control scheme they were *originally* designed for, that makes more sense. But just because the original control scheme was designed a certain way, doesn't mean a new control scheme for the same game can't be as good or even better.

Ehm, no. They weren't designed for touch screens.

BG/IWD were designed for mouse/keyboard - end of story.

Now, the tablet versions were ADAPTED for touch screen controls - because there was no alternative.

Of course, that doesn't mean it's absolutely impossible that a touch screen could be a better controller - it's just that you're the only person I've ever heard suggest it for games like BG/IWD.

You're also the only person I know who claims one game is the BEST EVAH after a few hours - and then another is the BEST EVAH the week after that.

Meaning, you're probably just a little excited about your new toys as per usual - which is great for you - but doesn't quite change reality for the rest of us.
 
Mmm, there's the DART I know and am used to. I was wondering where you were hiding. :D
 
PS:T:EE actually has a tablet UI that was specifically built for tablet/touchscreen only. They revamped it much more compared to their BG/IWD ports.

I gave a simple example, though. Not sure why you didn't quote my last paragraph. Are the original Gothic controls better than mapping the functions to a gaming mouse, or mapping them to a controller? Another example, which is easier - hunting for the # keys on the keyboard for your hotkeys, while one hand is on WASD + the other is on a mouse, or simply pressing the 'A' button on a controller?

Original Gothic controls - Keyboard #s 1-0 are your hotkeys. You have to remove your hand from the keyboard, generally look down at your keyboard and hit the number key. It gets even trickier the further right you have to go, for 7, 8, 9, etc..

Steam Controller Gothic controls - face buttons A, X, Y, B = #s 1-4, respectively. Hold Left Grip and the face buttons become #s 5-8. #s 9-0 are a left click and right click on the right trackpad, respectively. Neither hand ever has to leave the controls to press the keys, and you can move + select a hotkey number at the same time.

This is just one example, but hopefully you can see what I mean here.
 
PS:T:EE actually has a tablet UI that was specifically built for tablet/touchscreen only. They revamped it much more compared to their BG/IWD ports.

I'm afraid that changes nothing about what PST was designed for. There's a major difference between designing the entire game around a very specific control scheme - and then spending a few months adapting it to tablets in an effort to maximise profit.

I gave a simple example, though. Not sure why you didn't quote my last paragraph. Are the original Gothic controls better than mapping the functions to a gaming mouse, or then mapping them to a controller? Another example, which is easier - hunting for the # keys on the keyboard for your hotkeys, while one hand is on WASD + the other is on a mouse, or simply pressing the 'A' button on a controller?

I tend to quote only the relevant parts.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. I'm saying BG/IWD were designed for PC and mouse/keyboard controls - and that's probably why the vast majority of gamers would prefer those controls.

IIRC, the original Gothic controls were actually designed around a console controller. It's been a long time, but I seem to remember reading something to that effect in an interview with PB.

Which makes sense, because the original control scheme felt much like a typical console scheme - where you would hold a button and press a direction, for instance.

So, I'd say the original Gothic would work well with a console controller.
 
Well the main fact of the matter is, any control scheme can be improved, regardless of what the original controls were designed for.
 
Well the main fact of the matter is, any control scheme can be improved, regardless of what the original controls were designed for.

Another fact is that improvement isn't necessarily what follows an adaption to a completely different and less flexible control scheme.

It's perfectly ok that you think the touch screen is on par - or even better.

It really doesn't bother me at all.

Are you not ok with me preferring mouse/kb?
 
That sounded very Chien-esque, DART. Not sure I understand what you mean there. :p

But I'd say a touchscreen is quite flexible, and you can use the same examples I gave about the controller. Easier to hunt for the "I" key to open the inventory, "P" to open the Priest spells, etc..? Or press the button with a stylus pen?
 
It's perfectly ok that you think the touch screen is on par - or even better.

It really doesn't bother me at all.

Are you not ok with me preferring mouse/kb?

Dunno, are you sure you just aren't excited about your new toys here? That doesn't change reality, you know. :p
 
That sounded very Chien-esque, DART. Not sure I understand what you mean there. :p

But I'd say a touchscreen is quite flexible, and you can use the same examples I gave about the controller. Easier to hunt for the "I" key to open the inventory, "P" to open the Priest spells, etc..? Or press the button with a stylus pen?

I don't hunt for keys - as I bind them to keys close to my fingers - so I specifically don't have to look :)

I can also use shift/alt/ctrl as combo keys - meaning I have something like 30-40 easily within reach shortcuts - and that's not counting the mouse.

But I'm talking about the combination of mouse and keyboard - where you have endless options to implement convenient shortcuts and much finer and faster ways to move objects instead of dragging them across screen, where you often face an interface that doesn't always register the current from your finger and so the object moves back.

Let's not even get into how direct control of 3D characters work on a touch screen, where you have to switch finger positions constantly - or hit some "virtual" joybad in the bottom corner that you will miss half the time.

Sorry, no, touch screen is complete shit for a large variety of games.

At least, if you care about your performance in those games. I'm not saying it can't work - it's just largely inferior in most cases.
 
Dunno, are you sure you just aren't excited about your new toys here? That doesn't change reality, you know. :p

Yes, I can be excited about things - but I don't push my excitement on others and take it personally when they don't agree.
 
Yes, I can be excited about things - but I don't push my excitement on others and take it personally when they don't agree.

No, you're more the backhanded insult type. :p Just kidding, man. It's all love. :)

I don't hunt for keys - as I bind them to keys close to my fingers - so I specifically don't have to look

Hmm, okay. I'd be interested to see your layout for something like Gothic, then. Or a typical RPG that has a bunch of hotkeys, at least 10, and then keys for everything from inventory to map to character sheet and the like.

I can also use shift/alt/ctrl as combo keys - meaning I have something like 30-40 easily within reach shortcuts - and that's not counting the mouse.

That doesn't sound particularly intuitive or like great control, though. But the Steam Controller also has unlimited Action Set switching. One button press and the entire controller is re-mapped.

But I'm talking about the combination of mouse and keyboard - where you have endless options to implement convenient shortcuts and much finer and faster ways to move objects instead of dragging them across screen, where you often face an interface that doesn't always register the current from your finger and so the object moves back.

I use a capacitative pen and it works great. But yes, you can implement all types of shortcuts and rebinds on a keyboard and mouse, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather just click the character's portrait with the pen when I want to see their inventory, or click the Mage spells book when I want, etc., and feel that's a very easy, simple way to control the game. Maybe even an improved way, dare I say. :)

Let's not even get into how direct control of 3D characters work on a touch screen, where you have to switch finger positions constantly - or hit some "virtual" joybad in the bottom corner that you will miss half the time.

Hmm. I usually use a tablet controller for games like that, including emulators, or when I'm streaming something like Enderal/Skyrim to the tablet. 3D games like that on a touchscreen are not really ideal. Doable, but not ideal.

Sorry, no, touch screen is complete shit for a large variety of games.

A large variety? So far I've played a dozen+ RPGs, some first-person dungeon-crawlers, isometric roguelikes, games like Heroes of Might & Magic 3, etc., on a touchscreen just fine. But of course, every game is unique unto itself and it depends on the game itself. I wouldn't want to control NBA 2K or Madden with a touchscreen. :)

At least, if you care about your performance in those games. I'm not saying it can't work - it's just largely inferior in most cases.

I just don't find that to be the case, but to each their own. If there is something inferior per game, I think it makes it up with things like comfort level in your surroundings, the mobility factor and so on. And since the games I personally play don't need perfectly optimal conditions, i.e. I'm not playing competitively or professionally, comfort factor goes a long way. :)
 
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Beat Yxonomei on my second attempt. Did the EE lower the difficulty level, or have all those years of playing Infinity Engine games finally paid off....? :) My monk was the surprising hero of the battle, getting a -9 AC through items/potions and soloing the boss whilst my party fought the followers.

I love Icewind Dale. I absolutely love it. There must be a nostalgia factor at work here but nothing makes me as happy as an Infinity Engine game.
 
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