Recommend me CRPGs to start and finish

[BoboTheMighty]

To some, crpg is still computer rpg. So everything fits.

Eh? Honestly, first time I hear about it. Always saw it as "classic"...a.k.a non set protagonist, different playstyles, non voiced (main), isometric, etc.

 

[Cacheperl]

Yeah, "classic" is the more contemporary use of CRPG; although the exact definition of what belongs into that group is probably even less well defined than the meaning of the abbreviation?

For instance, I am not so sure about non-voiced and isometric.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

C is definitely for computer.

It used to be a pretty important distinction after home computers started getting popular RPGs, like Ultima and Bard's Tale. Back then, PnP roleplaying was very popular among the audience - which was very "core" at the time. Which is a kind way to say we were nerds.

These days, PnP is a much rarer thing - and most of the audience is mainstream anyway.

That said, it's the first time I've heard C for classic in this context. I would consider that misinformation because it could easily be confused with a certain KIND of RPG - and not simply an RPG on a computer.

 

[Cacheperl]

And there's the reason this community is not called crpgwatch.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

I wonder how many people think C is for classic. That would explain a lot of the more silly arguments over what an RPG is or isn't

 

[you]

I used to write code in C but then I got tired of the classics and wrote code in C++.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

I used to write code in C but then I got tired of the classics and wrote code in C++.

I'm working on a C#RPG

 

[Kordanor]

You might want to consider playing a few short games first or at least sprinkled in.

Starting with grimoire already sounds like a bad idea. Even it is/was a good game, you'd be busy for months. I don't remember MM VI Size anymore, but Pillars is another 150h game. So something useful maybe for you is to add a column to add an estimated playtime, which you can find on howlongtobeat.com e.g. listing 66½ Hours as average for MM6.

Especially crawlers, like Lands of Lore, Stonekeep and Grimrock can be beaten within 20 hours or so.

One shorter but recent game I'd recommend is Halfway. Gameplay wise it's a mix of XCom and an RPG, graphics look similar to the isometric view of Albion.

Also had to laugh first when I saw Hired Guns...then I saw it's for the Amiga and it's not THAT Hired Guns "aka Jagged Alliance 3D"

Furtermore I saw you have Realms of Arkania HD in your list as well has Shadows over Riva.
I'd either play both the new games, or play all 3 of the old ones (Blade of Destiny, Star Trail and Shadows over Riva) as you can transfer your characters.

 

[Drithius]

More important than game length (well, to a certain degree…) is game genre. I'd burn out rather quickly going from one blobber to another to another. Likewise for migrating between isometric games.

 

[Kordanor]

More important than game length (well, to a certain degree…) is game genre. I'd burn out rather quickly going from one blobber to another to another. Likewise for migrating between isometric games.

Yeah, kind of. I mean playing the Realms of Arkania Games one after another should be fine I guess.

But playing both Avadons one after another...I think that will be tiresome even though they are good games.

 

[Deleted User]

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. The best RPG ever made to me.

Nehrim, a Total Overhaul Mod for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Better than 98% of retail RPGs and it's "just" a mod.

Lords of Xulima. One of the best Gameplay RPGs released recently.

Dead State. Excellent RPG with sophisticated combat and gameplay yet still having quality story, characters and choices.

Torment: Tides of Numenera. Huge & epic story/Interactive Novel RPG in a fresh setting.

And last but not least I'd recommend Risen, the best Piranha Bytes game, IMO. For a more unique setting PB game, play ELEX instead.

Might want to try a Jeff Vogel game, too. Avernum 1, perhaps.

There's tons more but these are a few that came to mind.

 

[Kordanor]

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. The best RPG ever made to me.

Nehrim, a Total Overhaul Mod for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Better than 98% of retail RPGs and it's "just" a mod.

Lords of Xulima. One of the best Gameplay RPGs released recently.

Dead State. Excellent RPG with sophisticated combat and gameplay yet still having quality story, characters and choices.

Torment: Tides of Numenera. Huge & epic story/Interactive Novel RPG in a fresh setting.

And last but not least I'd recommend Risen, the best Piranha Bytes game, IMO. For a more unique setting PB game, play ELEX instead.

Might want to try a Jeff Vogel game, too. Avernum 1, perhaps.

There's tons more but these are a few that came to mind.

For comments to these:

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines - Probably one of these games which definitely belongs on those lists. It didn't age too well, but it was quite a milestone worth checking out.

Nehrim - probably the best fan made total-conversion out there (and imho better than Enderal) and worth a look just for that.

He already has 2 Avadon Games on his list, though I'd also rather recommend Avernum.

Dead State…has one of the worst combat systems in the final version (maybe you played it before that?) which require zero tactics in most cases (zombie fights) and can become quite frustrating when against humans where it feels rather bugged (using unconcious bodies as pathfinding blocks, grenades being absurdly strong and unbalanced). It's also a mess on technical side and hardly any game mechanic fits to another.
So if think about putting that on your list, better read up on reviews of the reanimated version (recent reviews are also at 50% positive on steam).

Lords of Xulima certainly has it's charme, but involves lots of grind. If you have the intention of actually finish the games you play I'd also not recomment it. It's not a bad game, but it has potentially about 200h of playtime wheras most of the fun is in the first 50h.

Torment: Tides of Numenera is mostly a reading experience (much more than the original even), where also game mechanics don't matter. (if you successfully grab an item in thorns you get an item which gives bonus, if you fail you get stung and receive a bonus due to magic thorns; if you win a fight people are impressed by your strength , if you lose a fight people are impressed you don't die…and so on)
Again, not a totally bad game, but you should read up on it before you dedicate yourself to this.

 

[Carnifex]

I'd have to concur with Kordanor about Avernum and Avadon games, if I were new to those products I'd play the Avernum series before the Avadon ones.

 

[Deleted User]

Dead State's combat to me has plenty of tactics. It has high risk/reward, and the weapon weights, special attacks that inflict status ailments, noise levels, range, strength needed to use a weapon, critical chance, adjusted damage vs. undead and so on are extremely important and change the combat experience. Positioning is crucial, as is controlling the battle field so you A) don't get yourself or other party members infected, which means long-term antibiotic treatment, B) don't get a human, friend or foe, killed *by* a zombie in battle, which then raises them as a zombie, i.e. another enemy, which can turn into a panic situation, C) don't make so much noise you attract more zombies to the fray, D) keep your party themselves from panicking and managing their morale and so on. The combat is extremely deep, and there are strong elements that you have to manage in keeping all of your characters alive and healthy, both short-term and long-term (healing long-term is important in the game, you can't just drink a potion, it takes days to recover fully, and there are lingering injuries that affect your characters in different ways.) All in all it's a very tactical game, albeit in ways that aren't typical of recent turn-based games, i.e. "use cover, aim for the head" tactics games and that kind of thing, because this is simulating "normal people" trying to survive the apocalypse, not Marines.

The game also has more management aspects, and you're constantly making tough decisions, in and out of combat. Even item use is tactical in Dead State, as you can't just rummage through your pack during a turn, it costs AP. And you can only keep 2 items active as once, so you have to choose very carefully, and each item will have an impact on how the encounters play out and what your strategies are like. You will make decisions like, "do I run in and try to get a Dizzying hit on this enemy with the gun? Dizzy will make them 50% less accurate, but if I miss my attack I'm at point blank range of gunfire. Or, maybe I should jam this screwdriver into his head, breaking it in the process but guaranteeing a 100% critical hit that could kill him instantly." You have to prioritize loud & deadly enemies with guns first, but it's always a risk/reward proposition. You constantly are making these second-to-second decisions in combat and trust me, with the 3 difficulty options turned on, you will need to think very carefully before acting and use every item at your disposal. Unless you want a shelter full of infected people, which is no picnic because you also need them to survive and keep said shelter up and running.

Unconcscious bodies blocking doorways happens about 2% of the time. Besides, you can kill them and move past them with no issue, just stab the knife through their eyeballz.

No mess on the technical side here. Haven't had a bug yet in 30 hours, and the mechanics fit perfectly together, i.e. you have to keep a shelter functional and repaired while also balancing people's relationships, morale levels, and keeping a scavenging party equipped to go out and find more necessities like fuel, food, etc.. You have to manage relationships in the shelter, keep people happy, keep your fence repaired so zombies pour in, build structures to improve it and much more. There are extensive dialogue options, skill checks, branching paths and characters with more backstory and exposition than a novel. Yet it never feels wordy at all, unlike this post. Fuel especially can be a challenge to maintain and runs out rather quickly thanks to powering your electric generator, and if your companions get infected, or angry at each other, or at YOU, it gets interesting really quick.

Perhaps we played different games but the Reanimated version on Hardcore + PC Infection + Ironman is fantastic for my tastes. It was made by some of the devs on Age of Decadence as well, which I heard is quite a challenging and solid CRPG itself. Dead State is totally unique and engrossing, far deeper than it's given credit for. For anyone interested, take a peek at the very well laid out wiki to see some of the systems the game has (many important and impactful status effects in combat, weapon attributes and so on.) I'd suggest only reading some of the wiki as to not spoil your experience of discovering it on your own but you can get a general idea of what to expect there.

https://deadstate.gamepedia.com/Dead_State_Wiki

 

[Kordanor]

...stuff...

For good or for worse I played the game till the end (107 hours, with infection and hardcore but not ironman). And I finish almost all games to also be able to do an in depth review (so I am not one of these guys who plays an game for 1000h and then says "this game sucks!" as he doesn't agree with a balance change or lost interest)

And I'd say that with just 30 hours you still have the worst infront of you. As far as I remember strong human enemies are rather rare near the end of the game for example (checked my LP and I think I had the first of these combats at hour 60). Chances are that on ironman they will just end your game before you know it.
Also the corpses I used to disable the AI, as it cannot handle them (it just stays behind them and you strafe forth and back and shoot them until they are all dead).
Snippet of this in my review (link with timestamp)
https://youtu.be/XdNJKjRWw1M?t=1266

For zombies you basically have two options:
1. Get close enough you can kill it in one turn. Don't get too close or it will have the first turn.
2. Alternatively, start combat, let it come and run so far that it cannot attack. Attack it with everyone, so it will die instantly.
Zombie fight sample from my LP (timestamp in link, you'll directly see 2 fights): https://youtu.be/BgsThVqUBpst=181

Also I guess you haven't seen any two story buildings. These are bad in general (the AI cannot handle it, horrible performance) and stairs are also horrible to use as player but there are some...special situations where the game almost dies.
(again snipped with timestamp, just check next minute) https://youtu.be/InKH6FumkbY?t=33
On ironman...well, again your game would have ended there probably.

The game itself will actually die if you take one companion with you to a mission. Game cant handle it and crashes.

But won't go much more into detail about that game, just check reviews or even metacritic. Most of them are actually from 2015 which means it's the latest version.

Imho this game certainly does not belong into this list, and considering there is the goal to actually finish it, it belongs on this list even less.

 

[Deleted User]

Well we can agree to disagree. I've played a couple RPGs here and there and after 40 hours I think this one is excellent, blending several unique features that no other RPG currently has the same fulfilling combination of (dialogue with choices/skill checks/branching paths/multiple endings, complex relationship management with and between survivors, scavenging and exploring isometric maps with hand-placed loot, handmade encounters and interesting things to find, tactical combat with a bevy of status ailments, weapon types, weapon modding, chemistry/supplemental item crafting and usage and so on, base building with a large array of impactful choices, random and scripted encounters which also include named survivors you can recruit, each with their own dialogue, personality, etc.. I think there are over 40 recruitable characters last I heard? etc..) It offers quite a bit to bite into (pun intended.)

These are the type of RPGs I would like to see more of in the future. Ambitious, creative and unique. I would 100% recommend this for those who can handle a slower-paced isometric RPG. If you add in the difficulty options you are talking about a very challenging affair that rewards you as much as it challenges you (which is a lot.)

Finally, the game hasn't died for me. Not even so much as a groan, moan or exhausted gasp. Unless you count the hordes of undead in Splendid, Texas, trying to eat our spleens.

 

[Dasale]

...I even left off another thirty games, and didn't add to many modern ones.
So I'll continue.
....
I probably forget plenty as I have a huge libary of games.

That is among those bellow, the question is why you forgot each, and not those you didn't forgot. I'll admit there's eventually some intruders in the list bellow, but in my point of view, there's also some in your two lists, so.

Albion
Antharion
Avadon series
Avernum series
Balrum
Betrayal at Krondor (and series)
Blackguards 2 (or series)
Drakensang series
Dungeon Lords
Dungeon Master series
Dungeon Siege I
Eschalon Book series
Expeditions: Conquistador
EYE: Divine Cybermancy
Eye of the Beholder series
Fallout New Vegas
Gothic 1
Icewind Dale series
Legend of Grimrock series
Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader
Lords of Xulima
Loren The Amazon Princess
Might & Magic X
Might & Magic series
Neverwinter Night 2 Mask of the Betrayer
Neverwinter Night series
Pillars of Eternity II (or series)
Pool of Radiance series
Realms of Arkania series
Shadowrun Returns
System Shock 2
The Age of Decadence
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky (or series)
The Magic Candle series
Tyranny (shame on you)
Underrail
Venetica
Wyzardry series

 

[Dasale]

I'd have to concur with Kordanor about Avernum and Avadon games, if I were new to those products I'd play the Avernum series before the Avadon ones.

For Bioware fans, Baldur's Gate 2, Mass Effect first trilogy, Dragon Age 1&2, Avadon is a much better advice in my opinion.

 

[Kordanor]

For Bioware fans, Baldur's Gate 2, Mass Effect first trilogy, Dragon Age 1&2, Avadon is a much better advice in my opinion.

Just to give an explanation to those who are not aware:
Avernum basically has an open map. It's up to you to run around, explore and see where you can do stuff. It's completely open world.
Avadon on the other hand is more limited in that regard. By progressing in the game, you unlock new zones you can visit, much like in Baldurs Gate.

Imho the writing is a bit better in Avadon (it's good in Avernum as well though) but the first game has somewhat of a very incohesive ending to not spoil anything and the group member quests felt extremely "forced". The second and third games were better in that regard, however they were somewhat unbalanced due to the introduction of the tinkermage, a class which is pretty much op.

 

[Dasale]

Just to give an explanation to those who are not aware:
Avernum basically has an open map. It's up to you to run around, explore and see where you can do stuff. It's completely open world.
Avadon on the other hand is more limited in that regard. By progressing in the game, you unlock new zones you can visit, much like in Baldurs Gate.

Imho the writing is a bit better in Avadon (it's good in Avernum as well though) but the first game has somewhat of a very incohesive ending to not spoil anything and the group member quests felt extremely "forced". The second and third games were better in that regard, however they were somewhat unbalanced due to the introduction of the tinkermage, a class which is pretty much op.

Yes but not fully, some points:
- More Baldur's Gate 2/Mass Effect first trilogy/Dragon Age 1&2 than Baldur's Gate 1/DAI/MEA. BG1 openness and wide size isn't something to expect in Avadon series, nor in any of those other Bioware RPG.
- There's also companions in Avadon series and it's quite focused on it, much like Bioware touch. There's none in any Avernum or quite limited, just some followers in one or two.
- The first is quite good, second is just bigger with more fillers. No it isn't written better, first has more emotions, the story is fully coherent including ending, what's your problem with it? Haven't played the third yet, started but had an unsolved technical problem and gave up.
- One point is missing in the first, it's the astute of the sequences, the dev has less and less new ideas, but that one was brilliant and quite well achieved in Avadon 2.