JK Rowling and her trans views

JDR13 said:
Let's not pretend to know what everyone else's opinion is.

That said, I agree that it should be clear to most people. When I said the "U.S." doesn't have it figured out yet, I was referring to governing bodies not the general population.
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There's no pretending going on, there are polls on the topic.
 
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fadedc said:
Yeah but it all boils down to the whole unfair advantage argument. I don't disagree with that. But I also don't see a fundamental difference between that and all the other things that can potentially give someone an unfair advantage in sports. It doesn't mean I think we should ignore it, but I think it should be a broader discussion. The whole prosthetic limb thing is only the tip of the iceberg compared to what's coming as technology advances and society changes.

Regarding women's division vs. open division, that seems to assume that the women's division is innately worse and that allowing any man to participate would give them too much of an advantage. I could see that being true for sports that rely on raw physical strength, but is that necessarily true for everything? What about women who get reassigned to men? Would they be allowed to compete in the open division?
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7846503/

The only review of research on the subject I've found.

In summary: If a person has gone through male puberty, they have very large advantages in every sport where upper body strength, body size or bone density is an advantage. This remains a large difference at least three years after blocking testosterone down to female levels, probably longer (possibly even life long advantages, since the research cited compares what happens to average Trans women, which are already weaker than the average man and therefore has less muscle mass to lose,while a male elite athlete, who transitions, has a lot more muscle mass than the average man).
 
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SveNitoR said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7846503/

The only review of research on the subject I've found.

In summary: If a person has gone through male puberty, they have very large advantages in every sport where upper body strength, body size or bone density is an advantage. This remains a large difference at least three years after blocking testosterone down to female levels, probably longer (possibly even life long advantages, since the research cited compares what happens to average Trans women, which are already weaker than the average man and therefore has less muscle mass to lose,while a male elite athlete, who transitions, has a lot more muscle mass than the average man).
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Yeah I had read severally articles after I posted, and all the science seems to solidly support what you said. I had thought that woman might have more of an advantage in sports where upper body strength was not an issue (ie running) but the research does not support that.
 
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fadedc said:
Yeah I had read severally articles after I posted, and all the science seems to solidly support what you said. I had thought that woman might have more of an advantage in sports where upper body strength was not an issue (ie running) but the research does not support that.
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I think I read somewhere that women could have an advantage in extreme endurance sports, where a person is supposed not to run as far as possible, but to run as much time in a row as possible, or something like that.
 
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Not surprising, she has angered people on both sides of the isle.
 
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@Ripper shared this article in another thread and I thought I would fit here. There's an interview series with Rowlings and lots of other people related to the controversy/witch hunt/whatever you want to call it, being released the 21st of February (don't know if it is the first episode or the entire series). Read about it in the above link.
 
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First two episodes were interesting, but annoying that they've only released those so far. Good chat with two of the opposing attorneys in the past book-banning attempts by the Christian right. Interesting to hear from the pro-banning guy, who has since changed his position, and some discussion of how they saw it, and why things got so febrile.
 
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Ripper said:
First two episodes were interesting, but annoying that they've only released those so far. Good chat with two of the opposing attorneys in the past book-banning attempts by the Christian right. Interesting to hear from the pro-banning guy, who has since changed his position, and some discussion of how they saw it, and why things got so febrile.
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I will give them a listen tomorrow when I go to and from work. Looking forward to someone actually speaking to the accused and not assume guilt.
 
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SveNitoR said:
I will give them a listen tomorrow when I go to and from work. Looking forward to someone actually speaking to the accused and not assume guilt.
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I once saw an African american guy make a very good point on a discussion program - how am I supposed to compromise with a racist? If you're dealing with David Duke, i think that's true - there's no meeting half way.

But, if everyone comes up with a reason why people who disagree with them are essentially as bad, then there's no hope of constructive discussion. The people making the accusation are convinced their opponents are bigots, so there's no compromise. And on the other side, if the starting position is "you're a bigot", there's no compromising with that, either. It's guaranteed to generate more heat than light.

For me, that's at the heart of it - it's not about a divide of opinion on the issue, it's about a divide in how people choose to disagree. And I think that political attitude where anyone who doesn't perfectly conform to your view is a monster, which is becoming increasingly prevalent, is a disaster for what people think of as progressive politics.

Napoleon once held a controversial drumhead trial and execution. When his chief of police was asked whether it was wrong, he said, "It's worse than that. It's a mistake."
 
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Ripper said:
For me, that's at the heart of it - it's not about a divide of opinion on the issue, it's about a divide in how people choose to disagree. And I think that political attitude where anyone who doesn't perfectly conform to your view is a monster, which is becoming increasingly prevalent, is a disaster for what people think of as progressive politics.
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Largely agree, but I'm not sure the doom is limited to the left. People being forced to lump in with the extreme end of "their" spectrum is going to get uncomfortable for conservatives as well. You even slipped into it, innocently and without malice, bringing those morons from Westboro Baptist in as a shorthand summary position. So while it will be enjoyable to slander anyone left of Reagan as a woke, ANTIFA communist, it will suck when anyone right of Chairman Mao gets dismissed as an x-phobic (pick your downtrodden identity politics du jour), conspiracy-addled fascist. And yes, the middle does lose in both directions.
 
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Well, I'm more interested in pointing out the consequences of the right's errors, not warning them of them. 'Never interupt the enemy while they're making a mistake.' :biggrin:

But the way I see it, the left is built on novel ideas and critiques, and the force of the supporting arguments. If those positions aren't sound, that's a much bigger problem than it is for the more instinctive nature of the right.
 
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dteowner said:
Largely agree, but I'm not sure the doom is limited to the left. People being forced to lump in with the extreme end of "their" spectrum is going to get uncomfortable for conservatives as well. You even slipped into it, innocently and without malice, bringing those morons from Westboro Baptist in as a shorthand summary position. So while it will be enjoyable to slander anyone left of Reagan as a woke, ANTIFA communist, it will suck when anyone right of Chairman Mao gets dismissed as an x-phobic (pick your downtrodden identity politics du jour), conspiracy-addled fascist. And yes, the middle does lose in both directions.
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I think you are right that this applies to all political leanings. I'm pretty sure, from personal experience, that most people are alright and want a good society.

Social media, and most old fashioned media as well, live on emotions, so why use level headed language and sane headlines? Why talk to the calm and reasoned? It makes too much money to stoke the flames instead.

If we feel attacked, we tend to retaliate, so aggression is a bad start in a discussion, and even worse in public discourse.
 
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Hogwarts Legacy has been cracked and is the most pirated game this month.:ahoy:
 
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I listened to the first episode mentioned earlier. It was alright, mostly focused on Rowling's background starting out as an author, while being poor and fleeing a very abusive relationship. The end got into how religious extremists got into an uproar about the books promoting witchcraft and bad values.

The most interesting thing to me was the end, where there were recordings of extremists claiming that the books were taking away their control of their kids' future and destiny. Pretty farfetched in my opinion. Well, to be completely honest, I think that's utter nonsense.

First, I think we shouldn't try to control our kids destiny, I think a good society allows them to do that themselves and unless they have utter wretches for parents or their genes are psychopath leaning most kids want to do good.

Second, I think if a children's book's values can make someone break away from your values completely, then maybe those values aren't that great.
 
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