How is this worse than quick-loading over and over and over and over again until you beat a fight that's too tough for you (for any of a number of reasons?)
I think I've pointed out the exact difference, and that should sufficiently demonstrate how it's worse.
In my book, Vita-Chambers don't "destroy the challenge" -- instead, they change the nature of the challenge. Personally, I hate save-game abuse: I would rather play a game where you can't/don't have to save/reload *even once* (Nethack rules, btw), than one that *forces* you to reload from saved even once -- like just about all FPS's do. (Try playing Half-Life 2 through without dying, even on Normal, for example.)
Again, you assume I think quicksave abusing is a good thing. You also assume that I think that feature is ok.
The reason I don't complain about quicksaving is because I've gotten used to it. I've always felt a bit silly saving every 10 steps because I wanted to conserve resources. But I still think it's a lot better than the Vita chamber solution for reasons I don't care to repeat only to go in circle.
I agree that the Vita-Chamber was a brute-force solution, much less elegant than Planescape: Torment's. However, IMO it's still far less immersion-breaking than "Uh-oh, F9."
Two wrongs don't make a right.
And you have the same resources you had *before* fighting them. Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
True, but since resources is never an issue in Bioshock this is irrelevant.
And you know this, because...?
I base this on my knowledge of the people I've interacted with regarding this issue, and I've had numerous discussions in the past related to quicksave abusing or overall difficulty level. Can I prove it? No, nor would I care to try. If you don't agree, say so, if you do then stop wasting our time.
So, choice in games is always good? (Warning: this is a trick question.)
Why would one case of choice being good be indicative of choice always being good. That's an illogical assumption.
OK. Which FPS do you consider challenging?
I don't play a lot of them to be honest, but I did in my past. I seem to recall Farcry being quite challenging. Stalker also had a very satisfying level of challenge.
My point is that you're complaining about "lack of challenge" and then pointing at a bunch of features you can choose to switch off. And... weren't you just bitching above that Bioshock "forces" Vita-Chambers on you?
You're missing the point entirely. I'm here to "correct" the people claiming it's a challenge. Then I point out why it could never be a challenge, since you have all those options available to you if you were indeed challenged.
About the Vita chambers, again, you need to understand that choice can be good and it can be bad, and it can be meaningless.
I was bringing it up because it's a very highly regarded and widely played FPS, also very highly regarded for its game balance. In other words, it's a good standard to compare against.
Maybe for you. I only compare games against standards I personally think make good points of comparison. I couldn't care less what the media thinks and the hype surrounding Half-Life 2 was ridiculous as far as I'm concerned. So is the hype surrounding Bioshock and Halo 3.
I mean, if you test drive a car and then complain that it's "slow" and "handles badly," there's no way of telling anything from this complaint unless we know what you're comparing against (or, in a pinch, who you are). We will draw one conclusion if you're Michael Schumacher, another if you're the Hot New Products lady for Vogue.
You seem to think that because Bioshock is too easy, there has to be a game that is not too easy. That's not a logical assumption. However, it is a reasonable thing to ask for a point of comparison.
Anyway, yes, there are games where challenge wasn't a problem (lack of it) and I could bring up the original System Shock 1 and 2, which were both much more challenging.
What a useless comment. I have no interest in appearing elite or good. I'm simply speaking my mind based on my honest opinions. The sooner you appreciate that instead of assuming bad things about me, the greater the chance you will have of understanding my point of view.