CVG - Spector: Thief limitations inspired Deus Ex

[Dhruin]

I'm not sure that I understand his criticism of Thief but apparently frustrations with the game inspired Spector to do Deus Ex. From CVG:

The exec told Xbox World 360 that he was "so frustrated by Thief" and the way it forced players into combat, that it motivated him to create a game where sneaking and fighting were both viable ways to deal with a situation.

"Deus Ex exists today because I said, 'I'm going to show these guys that I can make a game where you can sneak and fight and make it work'" said Spector.

Spector's defiance eventually extended to the purpose behind Deus Ex, which he says he created with the intention of shaming other devs.

Thanks to Omega for this and several other items.
More information.

 

[Majnun]

Um, is he high or just has alzheimers?

If you play Thief and Thief 2 on the hardest difficulty setting most of the levels REQUIRE no killing & minimal or no KO's, and some of them require not even being seen…or you FAIL the mission.

Except for a very few parts that require it as an objective both games can be fully stealthed with zero killing (or even being detected at all if you're batshit crazy enough to bother).

If anything I found it to be the opposite…Deus Ex forced situations where you needed to kill people, not the Thief games. But I think you can go through most of Deus Ex without killing as well (I just didn't have the patience). To clarify I mean combat of any kind...using a non-lethal take down is still combat to me.

 

[zadokAllen]

This

Plus, I daresay that if you actually played Thief on anything else than Hardest, you completely missed the game. (similar to Crysis, Halo & possibly Fallout 3)

Whole levels & mechanics were built around the idea of sneaking & manipulating the light, also listening to positional sound (in game EAX that actually made sense)

Mr Spector has bad case of confabulationizis…perhaps is bitter because his Disney opus was "misunderstood"

 

[Lucky Day]

there must be a misquote. didn't thief come 10 years after Deus Ex?

 

[JDR13]

I'm pretty sure the first Thief game predated Deus Ex, didn't it? Or is that just a bit of sarcasm on your part?

*Edit* Thief was release in 98'. Deus Ex was released in 2000, a few months after Thief 2.

 

[bemushroomed]

I really disliked Thief1-2 because of how linear they felt when you were forced not to kill, i really prefer to do missions my own way in games. Deus Ex felt more open ended that way, i can't recall that you were forced to do missions in a specific way, not like in Thief at least.

 

[guenthar]

Actually if you don't choose the highest difficulty levels then you weren't restricted from killing. If you want the games to be truly difficult kill all of the guards in each level in combat. I'm not sure if it is possible since combat is really difficult in the games.

PS. I can't wait for information on Thief 4.

 

[bemushroomed]

I'm pretty sure i didn't play it on higest difficulty, there were quite a few missions that were restricted that way. I even remember some mission where you had to follow some guy and had to keep the exact distance all the time, otherwise it was game over instantly, really boring. I thought Thief3 was great though, had more interesting enviroments/lore too, can't wait for T4

 

[Dhruin]

So play on a lower difficulty. Why play on high if you find the restrictions boring? The originals were way better that 3 (which was OK) - the lack of rooftops was a real restriction.

 

[bemushroomed]

Just like i said, i didn't play on higest, it was still pretty restricted. Lack of rooftops? I climbed quite a few in T3, not on every level though. The level variation was really great in T3, loved that asylum (yeah even though it was restricted ). It was just a lot more atmospheric than the previous games because of how different every level was. It also resembled a RPG much more since it had shops and a full city to explore, could even break into peoples homes etc.. nah, imo much better

 

[JDR13]

I don't see how Thief was restrictive. Unless you were expecting something else and went in with the wrong mindset.

 

[DArtagnan]

I think Thief was a fantastic execution of a limited concept. So, I never really enjoyed it that much - but I have great respect for it as a piece of gaming art.

I tend to want games that are bigger in scope, and Thief was just too much of the same thing.

But I keep thinking about going back and playing the first two games, because I have a feeling the stories are worth it.

They also deserve special mention for the best implementation of difficulty level that I've seen.

 

[bemushroomed]

I don't see how Thief was restrictive. Unless you were expecting something else and went in with the wrong mindset.

Isn't that kind of Thief 1-2's thing though, to be restrictive? So that you couldnt just play it rambo-stylee like you can (if you want to) in T3. I'm not sure i had any special mindset when i played T1-T2, i just prefered T3 because i guess it reminded me more of RPG's (which is what i mainly prefer to play), it felt less linear.

 

[JDR13]

You had specific goals that had to be accomplished in certain ways, yes. I just think "restrictive" was being used in the wrong context there.

 

[zadokAllen]

But I keep thinking about going back and playing the first two games, because I have a feeling the stories are worth it.

They are worth it…and then some If you do, make sure your room is dark and headphones are on. Really…you do not wanna miss the menace and terror that lurks on later levels.

Also, best cut scenes. Ever.

Isn't that kind of Thief 1-2's thing though, to be restrictive? So that you couldnt just play it rambo-stylee like you can (if you want to) in T3.

If you really need to do "rambo-stylee", like Dhruin says, play on Easy/Normal? Or, get some completely different game - because they made a thief simulator with elements of horror, in which when you try to fight more than one guard you get your ass kicked pronto and alarm raised. Just as it should be.

Thief 3 was not made by Looking Glass and so, while not bad, is not on par with first two titles.

 

[tolknaz]

there must be a misquote. didn't thief come 10 years after Deus Ex?

Where the hell did you pull that number from? Thief came out in 1998, Deus ex in 2000. By the time Deus Ex was released, Thief 2 was already out.

On topic: Well, the man said nothing about when his frustration came about. Given that he worked on the game briefly in 1997 and the game came out in 1998, the build he worked on could have been very different from what was shipped. I suspect he has simply never played the finished game or he would have never made that comment.

 

[Lucky Day]

I'm pretty sure the first Thief game predated Deus Ex, didn't it? Or is that just a bit of sarcasm on your part?

*Edit* Thief was release in 98'. Deus Ex was released in 2000, a few months after Thief 2.

nm. I don't know why I always mix up Deus Ex with System Shock.

It may be that the FP aspect of these games has always given me trouble in getting interested in them so I am not as familiar.