JA:Flashback - Progress & Status Update

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Couchpotato

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Full Control posted a new Progress & Status Update on the games kickstarter page, and despite what the update says the game turned out to be a disappointment.

Here is a part of the update so decide for yourself, and leave a comment.
Launch and Reception

As most of you by now have discovered, JAF launched end of October. The reception has been all over the board ranging from “Absolutely love it” to extreme hatred by a small rabid core group.

While we do love the positive feedback, it is the negative one that has taken up most bandwidth online and internally at our end.

The entire situation simply makes me sad beyond words. Not only for us and our own future, but also for you and the future of Jagged Alliance.

Besides some rough edges in the game where most of those have been fixed by now, the major feedback issue really stems from expectations. And I think expectations from “outsiders” that have not been following JAF development as a Kickstarter project on a small budget, but expectations from hardcore JA fans expecting JAF to be the next JA3.

As you and we know, this project was never meant to be a replacement for JA2. It was a project where we as a fan community could in unity get JA back to its core roots of great TBS combat, modding and create a foundation for keeping the brand alive. It was deliberately set as a prequel, but it is measured as a sequel.

Stepping back and looking at JAF as a game, I think it’s a great little JA game. Its not a 9/10 – not a 8/10 either. But it has a good solid combat system that screams JA, and an ok story that has good elements. Modding wise it is miles ahead of where JA2 was when it was released. From a full blown level editor to external accessible dialogs, quests, access to LUA scripting etc we really think there is a great basis for lots of content updates in the future through community efforts.

But – we failed to do expectation management towards people expecting JA3. And there is nothing we can do at this point to please those guys.

What we can do and what we have done over the last months since release is to do our best to address whatever else has been coming up as negative feedback.

There is now improved stealth, more weapons, weapon attachments, better initial levels, a nice shop interface, improved AI and lots of smaller bugfixes and improvements.

Looking down the list of issues brought up and improvement suggestions, we have been able to improve on almost everything in the last months.

But at the same time, the gamers or even you as backers have not yet given us credit for this work by revising your reviews on Steam. We still have user reviews that are at this point hurting sales – and thus the possibility of doing future updates. Things hang in a thin thread due to bad sales with bad user review. Heck – I would not buy a game myself that has 40% positive on Steam.

If you really think JAF is only worth 40% positive, then so be it. I cannot change your mind then, and we will be forced to stop here. But with only a few changed reviews or a good handful of more positive reviews, the new gamer perception would improve a lot and possibly gamers will give the game another chance. And with improved sales, we can again do more updates and features.
More information.
 
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They are basically saying they're about to stop supporting the game, but will blame it on poor reviews (us) causing poor sales. This project has single-handedly killed Kickstarter for me.
 
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Yes it's our fault they released a game in the sad state it was in ChaosTheory. I hate when developers blame their buyers for a bad product.

We never even got the answers back for the interview from last year because they did not like the questions I asked them. This sours my opinion on future games.
 
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Well in their defense; space hulk didnt' sell well (the second actually has good reviews but still didn't sell well) and bitcomposer went belly up and from the text my reading is they have laid people off and are on the verge of bankruptcy. Ok not really in their defense my understanding is the game is pretty bad; but they are pretty desperate now and my guess is they will declare bankruptcy or simply go away. I haven't played any of their games but the second space hulk game did get pretty good reviews so who knows. I backed jagged but the reviews have been so poor I've been reluctant to play with better things on my list. Heck as bad as DA:I is it is probably more enjoyable and I still need more shards to open more doors.
 
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I don't know. I sort of feel sorry for game devs these days. The negativity is so rampant on the internet that it can crush small projects like this. It's a shame.

I did read through some Steam reviews for the game and they were all positive. The game sounds fine to me. Maybe not JA3, but still a good game.

Also, I haven't played the JA series yet. Can I get a brief synopsis as to why so many people love those games? o_O
 
Sadly… If you play with return of big hardcore franchise and make bad first impression, some ppl will never give you another chance because they will remember for a long time how you ruined their big anticipation. Regardless if this anticipation was naive or not.


We never even got the answers back for the interview from last year because they did not like the questions I asked them.

Its a little shocking to hear that. Did they tell you which questions specifically, Couch? I dont remember anything bad there. Do you think it was opinion of developers alone or more likely publisher denied this interview?
 
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Sadly… If you play with return of big hardcore franchise and make bad first impression, some ppl will never give you another chance because they will remember for a long time how you ruined their big anticipation. Regardless if this anticipation was naive or not.

Same thing happened to the new Realms of Arkania game. Also a shame because that game was actually good, in my opinion. A buggy release got everyone angry and they never really recovered.
 
Delusional much? Not a 8/10? This is not a 4/10. I got it for about $5 and I still regret it. Rough edges? This is one of the reasons why turned-based games got such a bad reputation (boring, slow, and what not). Good turn-based games can be successful and sell well (D:OS, XCOM, Wasteland 2....), but Flashback is simply a bad game. Blame it on the budget, blame it on the backers, blame it on the people who write reviews, I don't care. I won't defend developers who don't know how to create a good game.

And, BTW, the new Realms of Arkania is a good game? Are you freaking kidding me? I am not talking about that 'thing' that was released a long time, ago, I am talking about the last version, included all the latest patches.... A disgrace. Is it really so difficult to take a look at successful games and try to extrapolate what make them good?

R.I.P. Full Control, you won't be missed.
 
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Its a little shocking to hear that. Did they tell you which questions specifically, Couch? I dont remember anything bad there. Do you think it was opinion of developers alone or more likely publisher denied this interview?
It had more to do with the PR Manager as I asked a few harsh questions about funding, and gamers opinion of the game. I believe the thread is still in the database.

Here was the thread from last year.

Link - http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26129

I even added a few of mine in a second e-mail, but never got a reply for that.:disappointed:
 
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If you expect to release a poor product and recover through slow ongoing support in a highly competitive field you should take some business classes before starting a business. Customers are ruthless and one poorly handled project can simply be the end of you. This release a broken game and try to fix it after release model was never a good idea and this was always a substantial risk of such an approach. They didn't learn from the first Space Hulk and dropped the ball here again. I really have no sympathy for them. No one ever said business was easy or fair.
 
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Hmm interesting. There is no army of people defending this team like there was for Dead State...
 
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Hmm interesting. There is no army of people defending this team like there was for Dead State…
Please don't start another debate about Dead State. Take it to the forums as I don't want another thread derailed as the last two were last month over the review.;)

Anyway I seriously hope they make a gold version of this game. Just don't once again charge buyers to upgrade like their last game called Space Hulk Ascension. :mad:
 
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As an outsider to this, (never followed this game or developer at all) and just based from reading the news article and comments, it seems to me the developer put out a poor product, then got bad reviews as a result, and now is blaming those reviews for bad sales. I'm not trying to be unkind, but DUH. Release a poor product, then naturally it will receive lousy reviews, which in turn will hurt sales. That chain of events isn't rocket science, and not any kind of an excuse for releasing a poor product to start with.
 
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Hmm interesting. There is no army of people defending this team like there was for Dead State…

I can only speak for myself, but in regards tot his game, I played for maybe an hour and then gave up.

Dead State I've played for 40+ hours and although I now feel I'm quite done I still got my moneys worth out of it.

Chaos: Ruined Kickstarter for you? Of all the games I've backed this is so far the ONLY one that didn't turn out good. And I have no problem living with the fact that some of the games I back simply doesn't deliver. 4 out of 5 Kickstarters I enjoy. 1 out of 5 triple A...
 
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Well in their defense; space hulk didnt' sell well (the second actually has good reviews but still didn't sell well) and bitcomposer went belly up and from the text my reading is they have laid people off and are on the verge of bankruptcy. Ok not really in their defense my understanding is the game is pretty bad; but they are pretty desperate now and my guess is they will declare bankruptcy or simply go away. I haven't played any of their games but the second space hulk game did get pretty good reviews so who knows. I backed jagged but the reviews have been so poor I've been reluctant to play with better things on my list. Heck as bad as DA:I is it is probably more enjoyable and I still need more shards to open more doors.

Hopefully none of them will be employed in other studios only to contribute to ruining those games too.
 
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I tend to view Kickstarters like an entrepreneur starting up a new business. About 50% of new businesses are going to fail; only a minority are going to flourish. In that sense, contributing to Kickstarter is somewhat like gambling—you're hoping you put your money down on a winner and get a game you're going to enjoy for a long time.

Personally I don't have a problem with that. But I can see why somebody with a tight budget would be hesitant to contribute. In the long run it pays off more frequently to reward those indies who were previously successful at Kickstarter, and perhaps only contribute to new startups if you really like the pitch. But if you like to gamble, helping out well-motivated Indies is healthy for the game business.
 
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Chaos: Ruined Kickstarter for you? Of all the games I've backed this is so far the ONLY one that didn't turn out good. And I have no problem living with the fact that some of the games I back simply doesn't deliver. 4 out of 5 Kickstarters I enjoy. 1 out of 5 triple A…

Yep. Even 1 disappointment has got me thinking it's better to just buy it when it's on sale from Steam a month after release. I'm sure KS games like Pillars will be great, but again, I'll just wait for release next time.

I know what you're thinking. "If everyone does that, the game won't be made in the first place…" My answer: If a game idea is good enough from a company with some credibility, then there will always be enough people throwing money at it. I just won't be one of them, anymore.

Full Control likely provided the death blow to a beloved franchise that was already suffering from BitComposer's debacle. I'd rather have seen the Kickstart fail (it was close) than to have a game company promise something with very little understanding of what they were doing. We may never see another attempt at Jagged Alliance, as a result.
 
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I tend to view Kickstarters like an entrepreneur starting up a new business. About 50% of new businesses are going to fail; only a minority are going to flourish. In that sense, contributing to Kickstarter is somewhat like gambling—you're hoping you put your money down on a winner and get a game you're going to enjoy for a long time.

Exactly. I've had very good luck with kickstarter. I've backed over 30 games and only regret a couple. One of the biggest problems with kickstarter games is not the developers but the backers. Too many backers have a wrong attitude about their pledge (too entitled, too whiny, too expectant, etc.).

As far as this games goes..
I am a backer but have not played yet so I can't really comment on the game itself. As far as this statement by the devs, as others have said, what did they think would happen? You make a Jagged Alliance game and wonder why people expect it to be like Jagged Alliance? They had to have seen the backlash that JA Back in Action got. That makes there game come under even more scrutiny. Fans were let down with BIA and saw Flashback as the hopeful comeback.

I hope that doesn't come across like one of the whiny backers I was just complaining about. They were certainly able to do what they want. I just find it funny that they seem shocked JA fans think a new JA game will be like JA.
 
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I don't know. I sort of feel sorry for game devs these days. The negativity is so rampant on the internet that it can crush small projects like this. It's a shame.

I mostly disagree because when a game is good it can sell like crazy - any game, no matter how out there or simple. Good games get good reviews and/or stupidly good reviews that are as equally outlandish and ridiculous as trollish reviews for weak games.

There isn't much point in making a JA game unless you expect to do something worthy and if you're going to make a JA game you have to know it's a series with diehard fans who have big expectations and who've been waiting years for something decent.

So when you set the bar low, set your own expectations as a developer low, and you turn around and produce something that's not well received, it shouldn't be much of a surprise when things don't end well.

Sad thing is, the game has some good elements and feels like it could've been better but players aren't going to buy in on a poorly rec'd game that spent months in early access state in hopes of it some day finally being a worthy game.
 
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Yep. Even 1 disappointment has got me thinking it's better to just buy it when it's on sale from Steam a month after release. I'm sure KS games like Pillars will be great, but again, I'll just wait for release next time.

If you view kickstarter as a pre-order platform than perhaps you shouldn't pledge. It is a way to help get a potential game funded only. Getting the game with your pledge is a bonus, not the point.
 
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