JA:Flashback - Full Control Possibly Finished?

[Couchpotato]

Remember the last update from Full Control in January that blamed reviews, and backers for poor sales of Jagged Alliance: Flashback on Steam last year.

If you really think JAF is only worth 40% positive, then so be it. I cannot change your mind then, and we will be forced to stop here. But with only a few changed reviews or a good handful of more positive reviews, the new gamer perception would improve a lot and possibly gamers will give the game another chance. And with improved sales, we can again do more updates and features.

Now thanks to forum member ChaosTheory who posted new information from backers on our forums. It seems the developer might be finished. Here are the details.

"I see that many people are wondering about Full Control and the future of this game. For those who don't know yet, I will now provide the details to remove any speculations. Basically, FC is in financial trouble and mismanaged this entire project (details will follow):

Thomas Lund offering his office space for rent online: http://www.spiludvikling.dk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3439

A quick search on internet indicates that every member of the JAF production team is not working for FC anymore.

Moreover, a more thorough examination of the team members reveals that the game was actually produced by at most 4-5 people who actually have some game development experience. Shockingly, the large majority of the JAF development team was formed by a group of unpaid interns (mostly students) with no solid experience in game development.

Significant parts of the game were developed by unpaid interns, including but not limited to: large parts of level design, 3D modelling, and sound.

FC was fully aware that they shipped a subpar game. It is evident that all resources were put on developing Space Hulk instead of JAF.

I hope that those who disputed FC's mismanagement and conning of consumers are now convinced of FC's deceipt. Thomas Lund basically misused JAF's brand name to attract money for his studio. Money that his company in normal conditions would never be able to gather."

More information.

 

[forgottenlor]

Alot of this post is speculation based on very minimal evidence. I followed this thread as a backer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing whether Full Control is in trouble, or defending the game, but this is making a conspiracy theory from a few cvs and is far from hard fact. One can interpret the information that way or not.
By the way I'm playing the game now and having fun with it, but I really can't recommend it. Jagged Alliance 2 is simply a better game despite being 15 years old, and the majority of the things this game does right has mostly to do with it being a JA clone. Still I backed the game as my old JA disks won't run well on my current computer, so I'm playing it as long as it holds my attention. Full Control, in my opinion, made a lot of mistakes with this game. Maybe I'll do an article on this at some time in the future.

 

[Couchpotato]

Maybe I'll do an article on this at some time in the future.

I look forward to reading it as they denied our interview last year.

 

[Ripper]

Yes, that's a good point. The devs posted on kickstarter five days ago, saying that things are bad, but that they are still trying to sort out shipments. Also, the advertisement for their office space makes it clear that they are not leaving, but are going to have some free space. They hope it will be temporary.

So, not good, but maybe the conclusions are a bit exaggerated.

 

[Couchpotato]

Well I wish them luck but I will never back, or buy another of their games.

We still exist, but at very very low man count. As mentioned a few times here, JAF has not been the success we had hoped for and that means people having to leave when there is no money for paying them. That is also why things are grinding down to a crawl communication wise. Sad, but true.

If I sound to harsh I have two reasons why.

1. Space Hulk was mess and you had to re-buy the fixed Gold version.
2. Jagged Alliance: Flashback was released unfinished , and has many bugs.

 

[Ripper]

Oh don't get me wrong - I wouldn't touch 'em with a ten foot pole. But those hoping for their "physical rewards" might still see them. Maybe.

 

[Couchpotato]

I agree ripper as I was just point pointing out my disappointment with the developer, and how they handled both games they used kickstarter to fund development.

As for the physical goods being late that is a widespread problem with most developers & kickstarters. I always get my boxed copies a year after the digital release.

The obvious solution is to not offer physical goods anymore.

 

[joxer]

I they used cash received for JA game to fund something else that is not JA, they should be kicked out of games industry and online stores banning their products that are results of con art.

TBH I didn't back them. The project was stinking since day 1.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Please note that the source of the info mentioned in the JAF forum post is unknown and much of it is not confirmed. But where there's smoke, there's fire… The rental availability of FC's office appears to be true based on the link, and I can confirm that I have not received any of the physical goods 'promised' at my intermediate KS level, nor have I heard a thing about the status.

That said, I certainly wish no ill will toward Full Control despite my total disappointment in their treatment (or revision, more accurately) of the Jagged Alliance franchise. But at this point I'm not expecting much more from them.

 

[mbpopolano24]

I hope these 'posers' will get out of business for good and soon forgotten. Full Control has possibly ruined the Jagged Alliance name for good, and I will never forgive them for it.

 

[you]

Well we knew they were having fiancial problems so the downsize/renting out space makes sense. They probably didn't manage fiances very well (and I think folks misunderstand how much it can cost to make a game) so that part is pretty clear. It is common to use interns so that is also clear. However, they did a crappy job and probably out spent their budget (in part due to not managing funds very well) so now they are in a hole. I have no clue how well space hulk is selling (the last two had decent reviews) but I strongly suspect they are near insolvency. I.e, they might have issues and did produce a bad game but I'm not sure I would cal them crooks. Now if they did in fact use JAF money on space hulk the story would be different but that is speculation and given the low kickstarter funds, long development time I'm not sure this is the case.
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I will say that they should not be surprise at the reception given the quality of the game . Who knows - maybe they will use money from renting their extra space to help pay for kickstarter physical goods.
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Btw in their last 2 updates begging for better reviews on JAF they did not sound dishonest they sounded desperate. They are trying to save the company and I think the 'hate' level is a bit overboard. My tune will change if someone can show they really used kickstarter funds on projects other than JAF but remember 600,000 will only cover a few full time professional and a 1/2 hand full of interns/part time employee for one year. THis was not a hobby group producing the game on the side while having income from full time jobs. It makes sense that if they are on the blink of insolvency they are putting all their remaining resources in their most successful product (space hulk assension) in an attempt to avoid bankruptcy. Right ?

 

[screeg]

Physical rewards are a bad idea for KS games, full stop. These people are games developers (or at least they hope to be), not manufacturers, distributors or clothing designers. Every minute spent boxing up junk to mail out is a minute taken away from delivering the actual product. Worse, for a lot of the stuff they peddle to get a higher pledge they only break even, which means no additional money even went to the game.

 

[ChaosTheory]

I've repeatedly mentioned that I will no longer participate in KS projects for various reasons, and one of those is that I've routinely seen these small project teams revealing, within days of getting their funds, that they've moved into a new studio. Often the pictures show far more space and/or opulence than is needed to bring a small team together on a tight budget. In some cases, depending on city and location, I guarantee you that 20-30% or more of the KS budget was sucked up by that higher overhead.

To me, this is placing the cart before the horse. I get that you want to be seen as a legit gaming company and legit gaming companies have nice things. But make legit games first and don't make me help pay for your image. Once you're doing well, then by all means, have nice things!

"But ChaosTheory, sometimes we need more space!". True. However, that space doesn't need to be a 2nd floor suite overlooking a river near the Golden Plaza in one of the most expensive cities in Europe (as an example)— where you're paying a premium on just about everything, including the view… How 'bout a warehouse in the burbs, at least until you get your feet on the ground?

 

[forgottenlor]

Well we knew they were having fiancial problems so the downsize/renting out space makes sense. They probably didn't manage fiances very well (and I think folks misunderstand how much it can cost to make a game) so that part is pretty clear. It is common to use interns so that is also clear. However, they did a crappy job and probably out spent their budget (in part due to not managing funds very well) so now they are in a hole. I have no clue how well space hulk is selling (the last two had decent reviews) but I strongly suspect they are near insolvency. I.e, they might have issues and did produce a bad game but I'm not sure I would cal them crooks. Now if they did in fact use JAF money on space hulk the story would be different but that is speculation and given the low kickstarter funds, long development time I'm not sure this is the case.
-
I will say that they should not be surprise at the reception given the quality of the game . Who knows - maybe they will use money from renting their extra space to help pay for kickstarter physical goods.
-
Btw in their last 2 updates begging for better reviews on JAF they did not sound dishonest they sounded desperate. They are trying to save the company and I think the 'hate' level is a bit overboard. My tune will change if someone can show they really used kickstarter funds on projects other than JAF but remember 600,000 will only cover a few full time professional and a 1/2 hand full of interns/part time employee for one year. THis was not a hobby group producing the game on the side while having income from full time jobs. It makes sense that if they are on the blink of insolvency they are putting all their remaining resources in their most successful product (space hulk assension) in an attempt to avoid bankruptcy. Right ?

While in general I agree with you Expedition:Conquistidors turned out to be a brilliant game, with half the kickstarter funds and no early access. Paper Sorcerer was also a very good game with about 10% of the kickstarter funds. I'm not saying Full Control didn't want to make a good game, but they didn't fail because of lack of funds alone.

 

[you]

Well that is a by product of talent and spending funds well. There have been some very good games that are obviously inexpensive to make - FTL is another and G. Sister as well as banner saga. Also note that some of these groups are not as dependent on kickstarter funds (games is not 100% of their lively hood). However, it is very easy to spend millions on a game (D:OS was well over 4 million; wasteland 2 and POE both had funds added out side of kickstarter and had 4+ million in kickstart. Even with doublefine massive kickstarter payout they went way over budget.
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This doesn't excuse full control; you knew they were in trouble when they mentioned how much they spent to redo their website and the game itself shows very poor design not just lack of $$. In no fashion am I suggesting we should support them just that they are likely not crooks, had good intention and it is a bit sad they can't pay the bills.

While in general I agree with you Expedition:Conquistidors turned out to be a brilliant game, with half the kickstarter funds and no early access. Paper Sorcerer was also a very good game with about 10% of the kickstarter funds. I'm not saying Full Control didn't want to make a good game, but they didn't fail because of lack of funds alone.

 

[mercy]

Perfect proof that you need real talent - not just mediocre dreamers - to finish a game that then gets lots of praise everywhere.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Lol the people who want to break free from the tyranny of the publishers using unpaid interns illegally? That takes some nerve.

This is exactly why Kickstarter will almost always fail, no one decent who will demand a decent salary will want to touch it.

It reminds me of an old song from here that said more or less "when you give people who make big promises and try to charm you what they want, the very next day they've already forgotten your name". It's a lesson that can be applied to many areas of life.

 

[rune_74]

Lol the people who want to break free from the tyranny of the publishers using unpaid interns illegally? That takes some nerve.

This is exactly why Kickstarter will almost always fail, no one decent who will demand a decent salary will want to touch it.

It reminds me of an old song from here that said more or less "when you give people who make big promises and try to charm you what they want, the very next day they've already forgotten your name". It's a lesson that can be applied to many areas of life.

Or...you just don't back stinkers....nothing like spouting our garbage and painting the whole kickstarter programs with one brush....it really shows poor reasoning skills.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I fully stand by all I said. When they already have your money, they have much less incentive to deliver on anything. It is simply human nature.

The fact that good developers will demand a decent salary applies to all Kickstarters as well. Even recent ones from high-profile developers struggle to get a few hundred thousands. Such money is not enough to even begin to pay decent salaries to a team of middle class developers for 18 months. It's simple math.

 

[rune_74]

I fully stand by all I said. When they already have your money, they have much less incentive to deliver on anything. It is simply human nature.

The fact that good developers will demand a decent salary applies to all Kickstarters as well. Even recent ones from high-profile developers struggle to get a few hundred thousands. Such money is not enough to even begin to pay decent salaries to a team of middle class developers for 18 months. It's simple math.

You may stand behind it, but it is simply wrong.

There are many cases of completed games that were funded, so it must be doing something right.