BattleTech - Kickstarter launches on September 29

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Battletech Kickstarter Announcement:

KICKSTARTER INVASION IMMINENT!

SEPTEMBER 29, 2015

Harebrained Schemes is pleased to announce their return to Kickstarter this Fall to partner with Backers in co-funding the creation of BATTLETECH. Jordan Weisman, the creator of BattleTech and MechWarrior, is back with the first turn-based BattleTech game for PC in over two decades. Steeped in the feudal political intrigue of the BattleTech universe, the game will feature an open-ended Mercenaries-style campaign that blends RPG ‘Mech and MechWarrior management with modern turn-based tactics.
Many questions about Shadowrun and BattleTech are answered by Jordan Weisman on the wiselike site.



More information.
 
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Looking forward to this one.

-kaos
 
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I would like to contact Harebrained Schemes when the KS is running in order to do an interview (like I did with Exoplanet interview). I will probably ask them about story, landscapes, tactical combat (cover, range…), additional units on battlefield, writing… something about Shadowrun… and more.

If you have some special question, guys, especially regarding Battletech lore, you can write it here or write me PM. But keep in mind that I cant ask too many questions and general things will be answered by their KS page.
 
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This is not very encouraging because BattleTech is a very complex tactical board game and they're going to give it the iPad treatment like with Shadowrun. This means they will really have to dumb down the game.
 
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This is not very encouraging because BattleTech is a very complex tactical board game and they're going to give it the iPad treatment like with Shadowrun. This means they will really have to dumb down the game.

Well, if they keep up the good work with the atmosphere and story, it will help make up for that a lot. I'm not disagreeing with you. I would have preferred a more complete implementation of the pen and paper rules, but I still really liked Dragonfall, and am enjoying Hong Kong so far. I've played a lot more Battletech than Shadowrun, but I still will give the game a chance even if it's dumbed down.
 
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This is not very encouraging because BattleTech is a very complex tactical board game and they're going to give it the iPad treatment like with Shadowrun. This means they will really have to dumb down the game.

I'm going to strongly disagree that dumbing down is really a good word for this. I understand your sentiment and, just to cite my bona fides, I moderate the Catalyst BT forums, have about 3/4 of the paper library (including TROs), multiple copies of Total Warfare (core rulebook 1) along with the other core books (including Interstellar Ops beta), and sometimes play a little MegaMek.

But! I really don't think straight up Battletech is all that suitable for the kind of game Harebrained wants to make, especially if I think back on my experiences with MegaMek and all its complexity. It's highly crunchy and oriented towards record-sheet tracking, many dice rolls, hex facing rules, and multiple levels of exceptions. This is an absolute blast for board game players, but it doesn't translate well to a media heavy turn based tactical game of the type they want to create. Even in turn based games, you want the core game loop to be easily understood and digested in a short period. Battletech's core loop is spread out and the structure of weapons and equipment exceptions makes it difficult to grok the essentials of what's going on and get back to understanding the wider tactical action.

To borrow from the various "rules levels" of Battletech, the squad game is one level of granularity too low to create the kind of game Harebrained wants. It's about the deep crunchiness of weapon location and systems management in a 'Mech rather than the tactical picture of lance movement and terrain. The board game has that, but the systems level stuff goes too deep to provide the right fun for this audience.

Now before you go back to claims of "dumbing down", I'm hardly advocating simplicity for simplicity's sake. I'm advocating simplicity in one place so that we can have complexity in another place. Maybe the core loop still engages weapons systems, but that the mechanics of those systems work differently so that the developers can abstract the math more easily, maintain clear "personality" in the weapons systems, and keep the emotional intensity of the gameplay up. Like they said, it's not a cover based game, but it is about huge walking tanks positioning themselves in the right places so they can bring the right weapons to bear for the greatest effect. Lasers vs Missiles vs Autocannons and tradeoffs in heat management can all still be in there, but work differently than the board game.
 
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Where did you get this info? I think you are wrong.

I wonder if they actually learned from Shadowrun games that their audience is, in fact, primarily on PC. I sure hope so because their UI got a lot better when Harebrained they can work with proper layouts and resolutions if they make it PC-centric.
 
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Removed my post about the game engine they are using as it was wrong.

They are building a new engine but it is using Unity 5 as the base.
 
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I'm going to strongly disagree that dumbing down is really a good word for this. I understand your sentiment and, just to cite my bona fides, I moderate the Catalyst BT forums, have about 3/4 of the paper library (including TROs), multiple copies of Total Warfare (core rulebook 1) along with the other core books (including Interstellar Ops beta), and sometimes play a little MegaMek.

But! I really don't think straight up Battletech is all that suitable for the kind of game Harebrained wants to make, especially if I think back on my experiences with MegaMek and all its complexity. It's highly crunchy and oriented towards record-sheet tracking, many dice rolls, hex facing rules, and multiple levels of exceptions. This is an absolute blast for board game players, but it doesn't translate well to a media heavy turn based tactical game of the type they want to create. Even in turn based games, you want the core game loop to be easily understood and digested in a short period. Battletech's core loop is spread out and the structure of weapons and equipment exceptions makes it difficult to grok the essentials of what's going on and get back to understanding the wider tactical action.

To borrow from the various "rules levels" of Battletech, the squad game is one level of granularity too low to create the kind of game Harebrained wants. It's about the deep crunchiness of weapon location and systems management in a 'Mech rather than the tactical picture of lance movement and terrain. The board game has that, but the systems level stuff goes too deep to provide the right fun for this audience.

Now before you go back to claims of "dumbing down", I'm hardly advocating simplicity for simplicity's sake. I'm advocating simplicity in one place so that we can have complexity in another place. Maybe the core loop still engages weapons systems, but that the mechanics of those systems work differently so that the developers can abstract the math more easily, maintain clear "personality" in the weapons systems, and keep the emotional intensity of the gameplay up. Like they said, it's not a cover based game, but it is about huge walking tanks positioning themselves in the right places so they can bring the right weapons to bear for the greatest effect. Lasers vs Missiles vs Autocannons and tradeoffs in heat management can all still be in there, but work differently than the board game.

While I think you make some good arguments, and while I'm sure some compromises are necessary, I think games like Jagged Alliance and the Infinity Engine games show that people like fairly complex systems, with the feel of a pen and paper game, if implemented right. While I really liked the Shadowrun games, I think they could have been less streamlined and still found an audience. I'd argue that once you go with turn based combat, you're targeting an audience that tends to enjoy complexity and deep systems.
 
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Removed my post about the game engine they are using as it was wrong.

They are building a new engine but it is using Unity 5 as the base.

Unity 5 is pretty good actually.
 
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While I think you make some good arguments, and while I'm sure some compromises are necessary, I think games like Jagged Alliance and the Infinity Engine games show that people like fairly complex systems, with the feel of a pen and paper game, if implemented right. While I really liked the Shadowrun games, I think they could have been less streamlined and still found an audience. I'd argue that once you go with turn based combat, you're targeting an audience that tends to enjoy complexity and deep systems.

Perhaps. That in the end is a business argument: can you sustain Harebrained (and grow it) with that particular audience or do you need to do at least some streamlining to accommodate a larger audience? Dunno. I'd argue that the worst thing Harebrained could do is try to go after a subset of their current audience, saying to former SR:R supporters "You know? Maybe this game isn't really for you." That'd tank the studio pretty quick I'd wager as expectations play a big role in studio success.

I'll also reiterate to you that Battletech the board game is slow. Very slow. I love it to death and while not Star Fleet Battles complex, it is very deep. The game warrants this as it's built around 'Mech systems simulation. You cited Infinity, which uses an earlier D20 variation, and Jagged Allience, which uses a reasonably predictable squad tactical system but with a morale/loyalty mechanic. Both are actually quite a bit more streamlined than Battletech. D&D, for example, assumes the party will face between 1 and 20 or so opponents. Battletech is designed at the lance level for 4 vs 4 combat each with their own record sheets and their own multiple weapons systems and associated rules. Every additional 'Mech adds a much larger degree of complexity and slows down the game considerably. For instance company level combat (12 vs 12) is assumed to be an all day affair and battalion combat (36 vs 36) is something you leave on a basement table for over a week. Add vehicles, aerospace assets, and infantry and it just gets more complex from there.

In the end I guess it's just difficult to describe exactly why this system isn't appropriate for widely popular computer gaming without having you playing it and reading deeply into its current ruleset.

A bunch of us are discussing and arguing in the background about this. The core books have a fairly new fast-play alternative ruleset that plays more like WarMachine complex rather than Battletech complex. It's called Alpha Strike and shrinks records tracking to small cards. If nothing else it cuts the length of games by 1/3 or more. It might even be too simple to maintain enjoyment for computer Battletech. I'd suggest that a set of mechanics that sit somewhere between these two rulesets would be optimal for Harebrained's purposes.
 
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