Fallout 4 - A Serial Killer Review

[Myrthos]

Rock, Paper, Shotgun's John Walker is going through Fallout 4 by killing as many characters as he can. Unfortunately the game isn't designed well for such an evil approach.

My goal in setting forth on a murderous rampage through Fallout 4 was to see how the game would react to it. Would it adjust itself to my mercenary ways, start to reveal new pathways – perhaps something like Skyrim’s Dark Brotherhood recruiting me to their gang? Or would I simply shut down all the interesting routes, failing too many quests and closing off chains that would let my character properly develop? What I wasn’t expecting was for the game to simply not cope.

I don’t know if that’s an unfair expectation – I wouldn’t expect most games to cope with my deliberately trying to kill every major character, along with all the minors. It’s relatively ‘normal’ in games to have plot-critical characters either impervious to bullets, or not even let you fire at them. But this is Bethesda, and there’s something about the tone of FO4 that suggests a greater freedom – the issue is, that freedom is assigned in a strangely arbitrary manner.

More information.

 

[rjshae]

Well there goes the psychopathic gamer marketing niche... the Bethesda marketeers must be wringing their hands in sheer desperation.

/sarcasm off

 

[Pessimeister]

It's an erroneous assumption to think everyone plays themselves when playing games like Fallout. Indeed, one of the virtues of the original games is the flexible character system which empowers players to create a diversity of characters.

I'm sensing a distinct lack of character oriented reactivity in F4 as a common theme so far in reviews, which is kind of damning for a Fallout title given it was one of its key characteristics. (Low intelligence dialogue for example...)

I ended up playing F3 in a slightly similar manner to the reviewer simply because there was never a role-playing option which catered toward the kind of character I wanted to play. You also have to admit that immortal characters in this day and age are silly in these games and the lack of consequences in this department as described, breaks immersion somewhat.

Also, I could easily imagine a more fevered, desperate and morally compromised character willing to do whatever it takes to be reconnected with their offspring.
Hopefully the game accommodates this interpretation of the forced protagonist at least in some way.

 

[Thrasher]

A scavenger attacked me so now they all hate me. Psychopathy is hardcoded.

 

[JDR13]

I agree the immortal characters are silly, but that's certainly not the worst issue imo. I'm finding the laughably bad AI to be the biggest immersion breaker for me.

For instance, I just cleared out an underground base of raiders, and it occurred to me that they must have all been hearing impaired. How else could they not hear gunfire and explosions in the very next room?

The best was after I killed one with a frag grenade, and another raider ran over from a short distance away, looked around, and then said "Hmm.. I must be hearing things" (as he's standing next to the dead body), and then calmly walked away because he didn't see me.

I'm still enjoying it overall, but things like that really kill it for me at times.

 

[Dez]

JDR, that kind of stuff is silly indeed. It always slightly bugs me when npcs don't notice dead bodies or when they ignore loud gunfire without any sensible explanation.

 

[Morrandir]

For instance, I just cleared out an underground base of raiders, and it occurred to me that they must have all been hearing impaired. How else could they not hear gunfire and explosions in the very next room?

I hate this as well but it has been done like this forever. I can't remember a game where this has been done in a decent way.

 

[Eye]

I hate this as well but it has been done like this forever. I can't remember a game where this has been done in a decent way.

Gothic 2? (Or is my wish father to the thought?)

 

[DArtagnan]

With such scope and such a feature set inevitably come bugs.

I agree it can be quite immersion-breaking - but I don't see how we can have games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 without the occasional AI quirk or inconsistency. We're simply not at a stage where dynamic AI will make every NPC react naturally to whatever happens.

Even dedicated stealth games have the odd AI quirk or silly immersion-breaking stuff - including games like Deus Ex and Dishonored.

For my part, being a huge immersion, stealth, mechanics and exploration freak, it's the only games in the world that even bother to have them all to such a large extent and together.

While I greatly enjoy games like Gothic and Witcher - they just don't offer the same level of said features combined - and I have no alternative but to deal with the quirks.

I think Bethesda are getting better at it, though I'm frankly disappointed that we're still seeing things like (very) broken pathfinding with companions and the disturbing issues during conversations. For such integral features, they really should have them working better - or simply omit them altogether.

 

[Archangel]

Well there goes the psychopathic gamer marketing niche… the Bethesda marketeers must be wringing their hands in sheer desperation.

/sarcasm off

Considering everything in the game is solved with extreme violence that market is already playing the game.

You don't need to murder everyone you meet to be a psychopath, you just need to enjoy doing it which I am sure 90% of Fo4 players are feeling. So everyone is already roleplaying their inner psychopath

 

[DArtagnan]

Actually, being a psychopath is about lacking empathy and remorse. It's fully possible to enjoy killing and not being a psychopath - especially if you feel it's justified. Many wars are based on having (normal) people feel justified in killing others.

That's why people who enjoy killing in games aren't necessarily psychopaths.

 

[Archangel]

Actually, being a psychopath is about lacking empathy and remorse. It's fully possible to enjoy killing and not being a psychopath - especially if you feel it's justified. Many wars are based on having (normal) people feel justified in killing others.

That's why people who enjoy killing in games aren't necessarily psychopaths.

I didn't say they were, I said they are roleplaying one already even without the need to kill everyone they meet, which psychopath don't do.

Yes, psychopath are often described as lacking emotions or empathy but they can feel pleasure and serial killers get that from killing others. In Fo4 you go around and murder hundreds of creatures, including all kind of humans in very gruesome ways. Normal people have something called PTSP and also avoid killing unless necessary.

And don't compare this to wars, especially since it is a well known fact people in war fight and die for their brothers in arms, not for their country. Also they cannot desert and are often far away from home. In bigger wars many were conscripted against their will.

In Fo4 you are alone out there and just murdering anything and enjoying it. And you choose to do that without anyone forcing you in any way. Roleplaying your inner serial killer psychopath

 

[DArtagnan]

I'm just explaining to you what a psychopath is, since you clearly thought you "just had to enjoy killing" to be one.

Here:

You don't need to murder everyone you meet to be a psychopath, you just need to enjoy doing it

While it's not unlikely that such a person would be a psychopath, enjoyment isn't necessarily part of it at all. It could be a compulsion and grant no enjoyment whatsoever.

It's ok if you're delusional enough to believe you know for a fact that there's only one reason people kill during wars - but I can't exactly recommend you try to make me share in that delusion. I'm not THAT far gone.

I prefer to stay reasonable

 

[JDR13]

I hate this as well but it has been done like this forever. I can't remember a game where this has been done in a decent way.

You must have missed a lot of games if you think they're all like that.

Even Doom had better AI reaction than FO4, and I'm not joking when I say that.

In all honesty though, I think it has to be that way. Otherwise, they would have to make some serious balance changes to compensate for the increased number of enemies attacking you at the same time.

 

[DArtagnan]

Well, in my Fallout 4 game - enemies react to almost any noise, certainly including grenades.

But there is the occasional glitch - where their reactions don't seem to trigger correctly at certain times.

Not something I would consider unusual for games in general. Very few games have what I would consider realistic NPC reactions throughout.

However, I've yet to test if they react to dead bodies - which I think is a must for a stealth game. But I haven't really noticed - as the game makes you "engage" groups of enemies once combat starts.

It's a bit gimmicky in that way.

 

[Archangel]

I'm just explaining to you what a psychopath is, since you clearly thought you "just had to enjoy killing" to be one.

Here:

You don't need to murder everyone you meet to be a psychopath, you just need to enjoy doing it

While it's not unlikely that such a person would be a psychopath, enjoyment isn't necessarily part of it at all. It could be a compulsion and grant no enjoyment whatsoever.

It's ok if you're delusional enough to believe you know for a fact that there's only one reason people kill during wars - but I can't exactly recommend you try to make me share in that delusion. I'm not THAT far gone.

I prefer to stay reasonable

I edited my post while you were writing this one so you might want to consider making changes as this whole thing means nothing. Unless you are just trolling like usual. Than just keep on having fun

 

[DArtagnan]

I edited my post while you were writing this one so you might want to consider making changes as this whole thing means nothing. Unless you are just trolling like usual. Than just keep on having fun

Your edit doesn't really change your original incorrect assessment.

Also, it can hardly mean nothing as everything is useful to someone, according to you.

Anyway, it's been fun educating you on the level of contribution you usually represent

Back to the topic at hand.

My mistake for taking you off ignore.

 

[JDR13]

Well, in my Fallout 4 game - enemies react to almost any noise, certainly including grenades.

I'm talking about the range of their reaction. It's unrealistically short by an absurd amount in some cases. I notice it a lot more in interior locations though, so I'm thinking the AI might be set differently depending where you're at.

I noticed this while clearing the caverns underneath Dunwich Borers quarry. The raiders were usually grouped together in sets of 2-4 and the groups weren't very far from each other. I'd kill one group and then encounter another basically right around the corner just standing around talking as if they couldn't hear gunshots from 50 yards away.

 

[DArtagnan]

I'm talking about the range of their reaction. It's unrealistically short by an absurd amount in some cases. I notice it a lot more in interior locations though, so I'm thinking the AI might be set differently depending where you're at.

I don't know the details, but I've certainly seen Raiders taking notice of me while I'm walking "fast" in stealth mode more than a 100 feet away even when they shouldn't be able to see me.

I haven't noticed the range where grenades are involved, but I suspect they have some kind of sound distribution limitation based on room separation.

Some compromise to make it possible to manage in terms of performance - given the elaborate nature of dynamic AI.

I'm just speculating, though.

But I agree it's immersion breaking on occasion, but I'm very used to such things - as I play a lot of stealth games and they all have their own little quirks that I have to contend with.

These Bethesda games were never ideal for stealth and such - but I still love that it's possible as it's my favorite way to play.

 

[JDR13]

I don't know the details, but I've certainly seen Raiders taking notice of me while I'm walking "fast" in stealth mode more than a 100 feet away even when they shouldn't be able to see me.

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. They apparently have much better eyes than ears.

I haven't noticed the range where grenades are involved, but I suspect they have some kind of sound distribution limitation based on room separation.

Some compromise to make it possible to manage in terms of performance - given the elaborate nature of dynamic AI.

My guess is that it's more about gameplay balance than performance. Realistically, if you were to fire a gun in some of those buildings, every person or creature in there should be able to hear it. However, that might make some scenarios nearly impossible to overcome. They don't want 20 raiders converging on your location simultaneously.