Gamasutra - The Passage of Time in RPGs

[Silver]

Gamasutra has an interesting blog on the passage of time in rpgs and how it can feature in an rpg.

RPGs pride themselves on having deep immersive gameplay. Usually this is driven by epic narrative and story/character arcs. But have you noticed time doesn't actually pass in Dragon Age, Skyrim, Final Fantasy, or Darkest Dungeon?

• No one ages.
• No townsfolk age and die of natural causes.
• No NPC family grows by having a baby.
• No NPC child ever grows up to adulthood.
• No towns fade away due to declining population; Or villages grow into bustling cities.
• The king/queen/council never lose power - unless directly due to player activity or scripted events.
• Quest lines, usually involving some life & death problem, just sit in stasis until the player feels good and ready to solve it. Be it today, or a figurative 10 years from now!

If my three-year-old wants a cup of juice, she won't wait the time it takes to write this sentence, yet the proverbial inn keeper with giant rats in the basement will happily wait an eternity for you to get around to his problem.

[...]

3. Quests and Due Dates

Quests in Archmage Rises go in a different direction than the trend of "mash the talk button at anyone with an exclamation mark". In our world, NPCs have problems, generated by the simulation based on their life situation, personality, and goals. They need help resolving their problem.

If you have a problem, do you give it to some random stranger that looks good in armor? Probably not. You welcome help from those you trust. So in Archmage Rises the primary source of quests are relationships (there are other sources).

If you ask a friend to help you move, they say yes, but never show up, how does that affect the relationship? I can tell you from personal experience. Before I started dating my wife I did exactly that, and 18 years later she still whips it out in a fight: "Oh Ya?! Well you never helped me move when I was in university!"

More information.

 

[Sacred_Path]

No towns fade away due to declining population; Or villages grow into bustling cities.

Very true.

However, the only way I can see anyone pulling this off (especially NPC's ageing and dying) would be if there's only one settlement in the entire game.

 

[Silver]

Very true.

However, the only way I can see anyone pulling this off (especially NPC's ageing and dying) would be if there's only one settlement in the entire game.

That reminds me what a disappointment Dragon Age 2 was. The potential to show a city change over time in that game was left unrealised.

 

[lostforever]

In most games none of these matters since the events of these games are really a snapshot in time. In other words, the passage of time is pretty mush irrelevant. So lack of these features does not take anything away from these games.

 

[Sacred_Path]

In most games none of these matters since the events of these games are really a snapshot in time. In other words, the passage of time is pretty mush irrelevant. So lack of these features does not take anything away from these games.

Purely conventional. There's no reason you should be fully healed after 8 or 24 hours rest, for example. It could as well be several weeks, which would accumulate quickly. But that would be a game of different scope.

 

[Silver]

I would like to see the passage of seasons have an effect. You can easily imagine how some areas would be transformed by snow in the winter and how that may effect combat encounters.

But if you had explored that area when it was still Autumn your passage through could be quite different. It could be a matter of a few weeks until first snow etc. It depends on how you craft the game world how useful such features are. It would be interesting to play for sure.

 

[Sacred_Path]

I would like to see the passage of seasons have an effect. You can easily imagine how some areas would be transformed by snow in the winter and how that may effect combat encounters.

But if you had explored that area when it was still Autumn your passage through could be quite different. It could be a matter of a few weeks until first snow etc. It depends on how you craft the game world how useful such features are. It would be interesting to play for sure.

What's also great is if seasons affect overland travel, like in Realms of Arkania.

Speaking of Realms of Arkania/ Blade of Destiny, it would be cool if you had to unravel some plot from the past but time is running out because all the old geezers who know something important may die any day. So you'd have to be careful with going on side adventures, especially if it takes a long time to recover from wounds.

 

[Silver]

@Sacred_Path
Sounds like its time to try Realms of Arkania.

Maybe you don't know these old guys location and have to hunt him down before he passes on or your stuck with a more difficult path to getting the same information such as siding with a bandit leader. Choice and consequences should be built on systems like this, the quest design gets much more interesting.

 

[joxer]

RPGs are not Sims games.
Whoever wants characters to age and eventually die, buy Sims and leave RPGs alone.

If there is anything that annoys me even more than grinding and carracing in RPGs, it's time limited by some way crap.

 

[Sacred_Path]

RPGs are not Sims games.

They're "take your sweet ass time, the world is waiting for you, savescum anywhere, ego stroking" games.


...right?

 

[lostforever]

They're "take your sweet ass time, the world is waiting for you, savescum anywhere, ego stroking" games.


…right?

Are you saying there is something wrong with that?

 

[Dez]

I would like to see the passage of seasons have an effect. You can easily imagine how some areas would be transformed by snow in the winter and how that may effect combat encounters.

But if you had explored that area when it was still Autumn your passage through could be quite different. It could be a matter of a few weeks until first snow etc. It depends on how you craft the game world how useful such features are. It would be interesting to play for sure.

I'd love to see this kind of stuff in rpgs when it makes sense. I cannot help myself of not mention assasin's creed III here even if it is not techinally a rpg. One of the things, the game really nailed was the way seasons worked.

Exploring wilderness in winter felt entirely different compared to summer or early spring. As you can see in the picture below, the snow actually influences on gameplay in several ways. For instance moving though snowy terrain is much slower whether on foot or riding a horse. And ofcourse it is more difficulty to navigate in the gameworld as so much of the forrest is covered in snow. Even the enemy units behave differently winter time, Also other visual changes as well like npcs using winter clothing. In addition, animal behaviour changes during each season. Just to name few things.

 

[Sacred_Path]

Are you saying there is something wrong with that?

yeah, I think it's holding RPG design back in the 80's.

 

[joxer]

They're "take your sweet ass time, the world is waiting for you, savescum anywhere, ego stroking" games.


…right?

No or there is something you misread.
Sims games allow sweet ass time, allow world waiting (you can disable aging), allow savescum and saving anywhere, dunno thought what should ego stand for.

In other words Sims are originally designed for PC. You know, the platform where you have so many assets you don't have to limit anything.

RPG is not time passing simulator. If one wants that, there's sims.

If one wants RPG+sims there is that too.
One is called Sims Medieval which is standalone game however is questbased where the progress just ends after solving certain amount of those so your characters won't die unless you disable default system and put the game in freeroam mode.
Another is Sims 3 expansion which is named World Adventures and I usually suggest people here to buy and play it, yet noone dared to believe me it's really good. EA sucks, but occassionally they do put out something worth buying. Should I open a thread about this expansion?

 

[Sacred_Path]

I think there are holes in that argumentation, joxer. Mobile phone sized holes

 

[joxer]

I don't think we share the same problems.

My problem that you should know about is lack of humor (or perhaps bad attempt of humor) in german RPGs. Not just there but also in german comedies.
And now a german comedy appeared apparently asskicking and everyone expected it to win something at Cannes. But seems that instead of a proper jury, Angry Joe who hates german RPGs was judging there. Toni Erdmann won nothing.

There are no holes. Just empty wishes and refusal to try something different.

 

[azarhal]

That reminds me what a disappointment Dragon Age 2 was. The potential to show a city change over time in that game was left unrealised.

It was carved in stone though, kinda hard to change anything more than what they did: banners added/removed, different static NPCs, etc. What didn't change was person and building of interest.

There is only thing (Lirene's Fereldan Imports) that moved between act 1 and act 2 though because of stone wall was created where it used to be, but only in the day (night maps are stuck to act 1 layout all through out the game, it's kinda weird once you start to pay attention).

 

[wiretripped]

Wow, thanks for sharing this article. That game sounds very ambitious, and I really like what I read about its world simulation-aspect.
I'm keeping an eye on this one.

 

[rjshae]

PCs in RPGs advance in capability at a ridiculous rate anyway. Do you really want to see NPCs age and die within 40 hours of game time? The only way to do that would be to skip forward by years in between chapters.

 

[Sacred_Path]

PCs in RPGs advance in capability at a ridiculous rate anyway. Do you really want to see NPCs age and die within 40 hours of game time?

I fail to see your point, I'm afraid. If anything, implying more time passes as you adventure makes your power gains more plausible.

The only way to do that would be to skip forward by years in between chapters.

And why not? Though... a story heavy, linear game may not be best suited to this kind of thing, anyway. I was thinking of a bit of a sandbox.