Lords of Xulima II - Random Encounters and The World

[Myrthos]

Numantian games provide more info on the reasons why the first game was as open or linear as it was and why there were randome encounters, while adding information on how they want to deal with that in Lords of Xumlima II.

There were two types of barriers, ones that were only powerful guardians like the army of the impious princes that protected certain regions. Those barriers weren't impossible to beat without triggering the events that removed them (killing the corresponding prince) if you had a very powerful party. The other barriers were fixed and impossible to beat until you got special items or did specific things. For example, the Ulnalum Guardian that prevented to enter in Varaskel or the Yul statue in Rasmura that protected the bridge access with a halo of darkness.

We set those barriers for two reasons. First the story, the story was more coherent if the main story dialog was played in its natural order. Second, it was to avoid the player from getting lost too soon. In LoX’s earliest version, we first tested with no barriers at all. The testers wasted a lot of time trying to figure out where to go, what areas they could explore or were too dangerous. Ultimately, they became frustrated very quickly. In contrast, with those few barriers the world continues to be very open with lots of things to do, the story flows better, and the player is not overwhelmed by so many options at the very beginning.

More information.

 

[RickTheWatch]

Loved the first game. The main issues i had it was not being able to customise gaulden and speed being the best attribute for every class. I also found the non combat skills to be mostly pointless and food was kind of annoying to worry about.
I heard the sequel will be way shorter so thats kind of dissapointing.

 

[Deleted User]

Gaulen is very customizable, you just can't change his base class (Explorer). The game is balanced around having an Explorer character, but you can build him whatever way you like.

Food isn't annoying to me on Hardcore difficulty, it is very important and a resource to manage. RPG resource management stuff.

And the sequel will be shorter, but it will have multiple endings. It will have a very difficult to achieve ending that will take over 100+ hours to complete like the first game.

Speed is not necessarily the most important, IMO. Each stat can be used by any class.

Also, non-combat skills are far from useless on harder difficulties. If you don't have at least some Knowledge of Terrains, Hunting, Knowledge of Herbs, etc., you will be hurting when food costs thousands of gold and your movement through zones which consume 6 times the standard amount of food will be costing you a fortune.

Other non-combat skills like Lockpicking and Trap Disarming are typical in RPGs and work fine in the game. I actually love the mini-games that each of those incorporates (disarming traps actually feels like you're disarming a bomb or something. Especially when said trap can kill you.)

 

[Pladio]

Gaulen is very customizable, you just can't change his base class (Explorer). The game is balanced around having an Explorer character, but you can build him whatever way you like.

Food isn't annoying to me on Hardcore difficulty, it is very important and a resource to manage. RPG resource management stuff.

And the sequel will be shorter, but it will have multiple endings. It will have a very difficult to achieve ending that will take over 100+ hours to complete like the first game.

Speed is not necessarily the most important, IMO. Each stat can be used by any class.

Also, non-combat skills are far from useless on harder difficulties. If you don't have at least some Knowledge of Terrains, Hunting, Knowledge of Herbs, etc., you will be hurting when food costs thousands of gold and your movement through zones which consume 6 times the standard amount of food will be costing you a fortune.

Other non-combat skills like Lockpicking and Trap Disarming are typical in RPGs and work fine in the game. I actually love the mini-games that each of those incorporates (disarming traps actually feels like you're disarming a bomb or something. Especially when said trap can kill you.)

About chests, I think you still haven't seen one in Velegarn town centre

 

[JDR13]

I'm fine with hearing the sequel is going to be shorter. We really don't need every RPG to be 100 hours long.

 

[Deleted User]

About chests, I think you still haven't seen one in Velegarn town centre

That's entirely possible, lol.

I'm fine with hearing the sequel is going to be shorter. We really don't need every RPG to be 100 hours long.

Are there a lot of 100 hour long RPGs released today? I think LoX is one of the few modern ones that is that huge. But anyway, the hardest to achieve ending in LoX 2 will still take 100+ hours and in the words of Numantian will be "only completed by the most hardcore of RPG gamers". So that sounds good to me on a selfish level, and also a good compromise for those who don't want to go for the 100+ hour long ending as they can finish the game in 40-50 hours.

 

[arthureloi]

That's entirely possible, lol.



Are there a lot of 100 hour long RPGs released today? I think LoX is one of the few modern ones that is that huge. But anyway, the hardest to achieve ending in LoX 2 will still take 100+ hours and in the words of Numantian will be "only completed by the most hardcore of RPG gamers". So that sounds good to me on a selfish level, and also a good compromise for those who don't want to go for the 100+ hour long ending as they can finish the game in 40-50 hours.

I am playing Witcher 3. 150 hours logged and I haven't started the expansions yet. Almost 100 hours playing Underrail. Did not finish as the deep caverns suck and it's known that this part takes at least a dozen hours to finish. It took me almost 100 hours to finish Dragon Age: Inquisition and I had not even touched the additional content. Stopped playing Skyrim after 120 hours and did not even reach mid game. 80 hours logged in Pillars of Eternity and had not even touched White Marsh.

I would say that game lengths for RPGs are bloated today, yes. We don't need more of that. I couldn't finish Xulima around the middle of the game because much of the content felt like filler to me after that point. I'm all for shorter but richer RPGs. It's not like every player hasn't a life to take care of out of gaming.

 

[Darkheart]

Two things I hope are better in the sequel:
- Speed was the most important attribute, since it determined how often your turn came up. So it always was Speed plus class attribute on level-up
- Boooooooring loot! All weapons had 12 tiers iirc which did incrementally more damage. I hope they do go a hand-placed, unique loot approach

But what am I talking, loved the first one nonetheless and will sure get the 2nd one, too.

 

[Deleted User]

I am playing Witcher 3. 150 hours logged and I haven't started the expansions yet. Almost 100 hours playing Underrail. Did not finish as the deep caverns suck and it's known that this part takes at least a dozen hours to finish. It took me almost 100 hours to finish Dragon Age: Inquisition and I had not even touched the additional content. Stopped playing Skyrim after 120 hours and did not even reach mid game. 80 hours logged in Pillars of Eternity and had not even touched White Marsh.

I would say that game lengths for RPGs are bloated today, yes. We don't need more of that. I couldn't finish Xulima around the middle of the game because much of the content felt like filler to me after that point. I'm all for shorter but richer RPGs. It's not like every player hasn't a life to take care of out of gaming.

Those are not really the norm for game length in RPGs today, IMO. Other than Pillars which is an homage to a 100+ hour epic in Baldur's Gate, and Underrail which is just ridiculous for such a small indie to undertake (I mean that in a good way ), the rest are very large budget RPGs. Besides that, I see no harm in having a game offer the proposition of a 100+ epic saga. You don't actually have to finish an RPG to get a lot of enjoyment out of it, so even if you spend half of that time playing it, others who do want to invest the huge investment can do so.

It's all moot, though, since Numantian is kind of genius in this regard. The base ending will be achievable at 40-50 hours or so, yet the game has a bunch of extra content for those who want to pursue it. I think that's really clever and the best of both worlds.

Two things I hope are better in the sequel:
- Speed was the most important attribute, since it determined how often your turn came up. So it always was Speed plus class attribute on level-up
- Boooooooring loot! All weapons had 12 tiers iirc which did incrementally more damage. I hope they do go a hand-placed, unique loot approach

But what am I talking, loved the first one nonetheless and will sure get the 2nd one, too.

I am 60 hours deep on Hardcore and I don't level Speed every level. And in my experience, every attribute can be a class attribute, since even my Divine Summoner uses Strength and Agility for Pole Weapon attacks, Agility helps spellcasters by giving them a better chance to cast a spell when wounded, or to inflict a status effect with a weapon, and all classes need Constitution, etc. etc. So while Speed is probably the most important it is not necessary to take a point of it every level, IMO.

The loot is low-fantasy, non-flashy and solid, but it can be improved, I agree. I don't think 100% hand-placed is the best approach for a game like this, but adding "named" Legendary-type items with unique enchantments here and there would be great.

Also, trap placements will be randomized when you start a new game in LoX 2, and certain NPCs throughout the world will have a chance of showing up in different areas when you start a new game. Those are also a few clever ideas to make replay value a bit higher. The base RPG mechanics offer great replay value but the story replay value leaves a lot to be desired. But I'm rambling now so I'll stop.

 

[darklord]

I liked clearing the areas of monsters, while having to wander so much was annoying if they could simply speed this up. (whistle of monster summoning) I'd have been very happy. Removing it is a bit of a shame.

Regardless this is one of my fave games of recent years and I can't wait for the sequel.

Daniel.

 

[Deleted User]

I liked clearing the areas of monsters, while having to wander so much was annoying if they could simply speed this up. (whistle of monster summoning) I'd have been very happy. Removing it is a bit of a shame.

Regardless this is one of my fave games of recent years and I can't wait for the sequel.

Daniel.

I agree on both fronts, Daniel. I suggested a "Bait" skill to lure random encounters your way.

I wouldn't mind seeing some roaming Legendary monsters as well, or perhaps monsters that come out at night, or during certain weather patterns. I also hope they keep quest-related random encounters in there, as I thought it was really neat when I met with a random encounter that was actually scripted-yet-random and it was a quest monster.

 

[RickTheWatch]

The problem with the first game is you recieved 2 attribute points ever level up, there is no reason not to put one point into speed.
The game was very combat heavy, and i guess i didnt mean survival skills were pointless, they just werent very satisfying...i beat the game on the hardest difficulty and your right they are definately useful though..
Gaulden in combat uses his poison attack... and thats it....and he becomes the survival skill mule..
Loved the game though, cant wait to play the sequel.

 

[JDR13]

Those are not really the norm for game length in RPGs today, IMO. Other than Pillars which is an homage to a 100+ hour epic in Baldur's Gate, and Underrail which is just ridiculous for such a small indie to undertake (I mean that in a good way ), the rest are very large budget RPGs. Besides that, I see no harm in having a game offer the proposition of a 100+ epic saga. You don't actually have to finish an RPG to get a lot of enjoyment out of it, so even if you spend half of that time playing it, others who do want to invest the huge investment can do so.

He didn't say they were the norm. He was just giving examples to show there isn't a shortage of long RPGs out there.

I have to agree with arthureloi, many modern RPGs do suffer from bloat. To be fair though, it's a lot of games in general not just RPGs.

 

[Vitirr]

I see no harm in having a game offer the proposition of a 100+ epic saga. You don't actually have to finish an RPG to get a lot of enjoyment out of it, so even if you spend half of that time playing it, others who do want to invest the huge investment can do so.

I see the harm if the 100+ hours epic saga is achieved with filler, bland, uninspired content, and lot of grinding and repetition, which I'm afraid happens in most of those long games. And I certainly disagree about the enjoyment and finishing an RPG. If I don't finish an RPG that speaks a lot about its faults IMO, and do certainly limit my enjoyment and consideration about that game.

 

[Deleted User]

The problem with the first game is you recieved 2 attribute points ever level up, there is no reason not to put one point into speed.
The game was very combat heavy, and i guess i didnt mean survival skills were pointless, they just werent very satisfying…i beat the game on the hardest difficulty and your right they are definately useful though..
Gaulden in combat uses his poison attack… and thats it….and he becomes the survival skill mule..
Loved the game though, cant wait to play the sequel.

There are reasons to explore other stats, IMO. You can always supplement your stats with stat-up gear, herb salves and the like, and other stats can be important for all classes depending on your playstyle and build. I also don't agree that there is a class attribute, since every class can use every stat basically, again depending on your build.

I don't even have Poison Strike with Gaulen, choosing to use him as a utility guy in combat, somewhat of a tank to absorb damage and land an occasional wounding Axe attack. But my point was that the game was also somewhat balanced upon having an Explorer class, so it was smart that they made that character mandatory.

He didn't say they were the norm. He was just giving examples to show there isn't a shortage of long RPGs out there.

IMO, like RPGs with RTwP combat, for example, 100+ hour modern epic RPGs are not really that plentiful. I don't have analytics in front of me to see just how discrepant the numbers are, but if I had to guess I'd say that 75% of new RPGs released are not designed to have 100+ hours of gameplay on a single playthrough. So while that's not technically a "shortage", 100+ hour RPGs are in the minority of RPGs released today.*

* = This could be complete BS as again, I have no numbers to back up this claim.

 

[Deleted User]

I see the harm if the 100+ hours epic saga is achieved with filler, bland, uninspired content, and lot of grinding and repetition, which I'm afraid happens in most of those long games. And I certainly disagree about the enjoyment and finishing an RPG. If I don't finish an RPG that speaks a lot about its faults IMO, and do certainly limit my enjoyment and consideration about that game.

Where are all these 100+ hour long RPGs chock full of bland, uninspired filler content? I'd really like to know because I see this cliche all the time and haven't really found one game that fits the description.

As for not finishing games, I think this comes down to the person. Each person is different and if there is a secret sauce to making people finish games, no developer has discovered it yet.

 

[darklord]

I plan to replay the original at some point, I will likely use the Workshop they provided to rebuild Gaulen's class somewhat as well as a few other bits and bobs.

Also they added quite a few new bits including new treasures and improved the balance since I last played. Heh I'm at 161 hours on it already.

Daniel.

 

[Deleted User]

I plan to replay the original at some point, I will likely use the Workshop they provided to rebuild Gaulen's class somewhat as well as a few other bits and bobs.

Also they added quite a few new bits including new treasures and improved the balance since I last played. Heh I'm at 161 hours on it already.

Daniel.

Nice. Steam says I'm at 107 hours but my save file says I'm closer to 70 hours. Weird. I also have a longgg way to go, I think, since I haven't even killed the 3rd brother yet.

 

[JDR13]

IMO, like RPGs with RTwP combat, for example, 100+ hour modern epic RPGs are not really that plentiful. I don't have analytics in front of me to see just how discrepant the numbers are, but if I had to guess I'd say that 75% of new RPGs released are not designed to have 100+ hours of gameplay on a single playthrough. So while that's not technically a "shortage", 100+ hour RPGs are in the minority of RPGs released today.*

You're missing the point as usual. It's not about majority vs minority, it's that there's a lot of filler in games today, especially in many RPGs.

Where are all these 100+ hour long RPGs chock full of bland, uninspired filler content? I'd really like to know because I see this cliche all the time and haven't really found one game that fits the description.

I don't think that surprises anyone since you rarely seem to find any game that you don't think is awesome.

 

[Deleted User]

You're missing the point as usual. It's not about majority vs minority, it's that there's a lot of filler in games today, especially in many RPGs.

No, the point is that you suggested "not every RPG needs to be 100 hours", to which I say, OK, but how about some are? I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that some RPGs should be huge games. There is plenty of room in RPG gaming for all styles, IMO.