Baldur's Gate 2 - Retrospective Review

[HiddenX]

The Game Masters look back at Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn:

Game Masters retrospective:
Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn

We take a look back at why it was one of the best games of all time

The maxim that newer is better dominates almost all parts of modern culture, especially when it comes to anything intimately connected with the world of technology. It’s no surprise then that gamers love new things, whether it’s the latest piece of hardware that will push up framerates, or the newest entry into a beloved series.

In this mad rush towards the next big thing it’s sometimes far too easy to dismiss and forget about the great creations of the past, the result of an implicit — and sometimes explicit — belief that a game that received a 10/10 review in 2000 couldn’t possibly be as good as one that received the same score in 2017.

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More information.

 

[Ovenall]

Is this the game that had Kangaxx the Lich in the Inn?

I liked all these old games, but... Seriously, was there any way to stumble into Kangaxx and not get DESTROYED? I hated that about some of these old games. Kangaxx would have 12 spells firing off before I even realized where I was.

 

[Silver]

Is this the game that had Kangaxx the Lich in the Inn?

I liked all these old games, but… Seriously, was there any way to stumble into Kangaxx and not get DESTROYED? I hated that about some of these old games. Kangaxx would have 12 spells firing off before I even realized where I was.

No Kangaxx was not in an inn but off a side area near the all seeing eye quest area and you needed to find all his parts to revive him. There is a lich in an inn behind a secret panel through but only if you disturbed the tomb does he come out and fight you. You can make a hasty retreat before he casts time stop. Its the peril of exploring secret areas, you don't know who/what you are going to find.

 

[NFLed]

"BG2 isn’t just one of the best roleplaying games (RPG) of all time, it’s without a doubt one of the best games of all time, period."

I agree. After having played through it a couple of times when it was first released, and again several years later, I played through it again a couple of years ago and while some of the luster was off due to having played it so often (making many of the story elements have less impact on me) it was still a very enjoyable experience with a lot of depth. One of the top 5 games of all time for me.

I remember in the year before BG1 there was someone posting on a few forums about a new game coming out which is going to be great. It seemed a bit too brash, and my reaction was yeah yeah yeah, but it was not as pushy as some others about their new game (one of which we are still waiting for 20 years later) and it turned out to be correct. BG1 was great, though BG2 was better.

 

[Deleted User]

Is this the game that had Kangaxx the Lich in the Inn?

I liked all these old games, but… Seriously, was there any way to stumble into Kangaxx and not get DESTROYED? I hated that about some of these old games. Kangaxx would have 12 spells firing off before I even realized where I was.

I actually love things like that. I think modern RPGs don't do enough of that. I.e. stumbling upon some mega powerful enemy who just wrecks you. I think developers are afraid of that nowadays. They don't want people to be scared off or not understand that they have to avoid that encounter, come back later, etc..

Similar thing with IWD and BG in general. Due to the pen-and-paper and dice roll style, you could get wrecked in many battles. I remember dying many times in a single battle in IWD or BG. That would not be acceptable today in mainstream gaming for the reasons I said above. But dang, I love stuff like that. It may be time consuming, etc.., but the feeling of reward when you finally win is equally as great.

 

[DogInARocket]

I actually love things like that. I think modern RPGs don't do enough of that. I.e. stumbling upon some mega powerful enemy who just wrecks you. I think developers are afraid of that nowadays. They don't want people to be scared off or not understand that they have to avoid that encounter, come back later, etc..

Similar thing with IWD and BG in general. Due to the pen-and-paper and dice roll style, you could get wrecked in many battles. I remember dying many times in a single battle in IWD or BG. That would not be acceptable today in mainstream gaming for the reasons I said above. But dang, I love stuff like that. It may be time consuming, etc.., but the feeling of reward when you finally win is equally as great.

You're making me want to play Gothic 2 again.

 

[Deleted User]

Gothic 1 had that, too. I wrote an article about that type of world design. It should be published here sometime in the future. One of the points I make is that modern gamers may be so used to the level-scaled, Bethesda-style open-world, that no one tries to make a Gothic-style open-world anymore because it would confuse people. Like oh, I can't go in this forest right next to the Old Camp? They'd probably try fighting the wolves there and get eaten alive in 2 shots, get mad and quit the game!

 

[Darkheart]

BG, IWD and BGII were the defining games for me (plus Morrowind later). BG was a revelation back then. I had never played anything like it.

I was so obsessed with them that I even played the inofficial trilogy mod (BG, BGII and ToB) with a hardcore difficulty mod (forgot the name) solo as a kensai/thief. That was intense, frustrating and satisfying at the same time.

Good memories, will have to finally try the EE edition at some point (and Dragonspear).

 

[purpleblob]

BG2 is the game that turned me into a gamer. Still the best RPG ever created and I doubt this will ever change for me. I played this over 50 times easily with various mods out there and the game has enough contents for at least a dozen play through on its own IMO. I just can't recommend this one enough

 

[DogInARocket]

I absolutely love playing BG2 solo. I haven't played every class yet but I'm getting close

 

[Maylander]

Why, exactly, are people re-reviewing a game that is widely known as the best of its kind? Don't get me wrong, I love BG2, and like purpleblob I've played it 50+ times by now, but.. it has a whiff of "Captain Obvious". If it's something a bit more obscure, sure, but not BG2. Ah well.

 

[SirJames]

You could res Gaxx with body parts? The guy with the awesome ring?

I always went and killed him first

Seriously, was there any way to stumble into Kangaxx and not get DESTROYED? I hated that about some of these old games. Kangaxx would have 12 spells firing off before I even realized where I was.

It's like Dark Souls… Just run away, rest, come back and he wont have any buffs left

Was this exploit fixed in BG2:EE? I quit playing before the end of the tutorial dungeon because I believed the genie should be giving me a 2handed sword and wasn't. Pretty sure I had the right item. Air Elemental statue or….

 

[purpleblob]

Why, exactly, are people re-reviewing a game that is widely known as the best of its kind? Don't get me wrong, I love BG2, and like purpleblob I've played it 50+ times by now, but.. it has a whiff of "Captain Obvious". If it's something a bit more obscure, sure, but not BG2. Ah well.

Maybe it brings good memories back and make people go replay the game or even discuss about the game again. I don't bother reading the article in detail but I like how a lot of people drop a comment about it like in this thread now

 

[bjon045]

Made me bring one of my boxes out of storage (I have 43 and each take about 10 big box games).

BG1 and TotSC (Factory sealed).
BG2 Collectors edition (opened), BG2 ToB (Factory sealed).
IWD1 (Factory sealed).
Torment (opened).

Can't for the life of me find my IWD2 Collectors edition box (open) and Heart of Winter (Factory sealed).

 

[Ferris_bg]

One of the top 5 games of all time for me.

BG2 is #1 for me. I look forward to the time where a better RPG will come. Not that it is impossible, simply that it is far away. BG2 had it all - setting, gameplay, system, story, replay value (solo insane poverty says hi), beauty - simply everything. The most amazing RPG experience in my gamer's life.

 

[Stingray]

Gothic 1 had that, too. I wrote an article about that type of world design. It should be published here sometime in the future. One of the points I make is that modern gamers may be so used to the level-scaled, Bethesda-style open-world, that no one tries to make a Gothic-style open-world anymore because it would confuse people. Like oh, I can't go in this forest right next to the Old Camp? They'd probably try fighting the wolves there and get eaten alive in 2 shots, get mad and quit the game!

It's that exact element that was a large part of the appeal of many RPG's up until the last decade or two. Wander somewhere that you're "not supposed to yet", get wrecked, and then either spend some time devising a clever way to kill the thing anyway (and get nice loot beyond your characters' current "expected" gear), or go off and build up your characters and come back and wreck the thing that wrecked you. Either way, satisfying.

Crappier RPG's, like anything nowadays from Bethesda or BioWare, but also lots of other big name games today like Witcher 3 and even many lesser known games, have now completely thrown away this element. All in the name of mass-market appeal I guess. It's a quite large part of why most RPG's aren't nearly as good as they used to be. Needs to be talked about more than it is.

 

[Deleted User]

It does need to be talked about. That's why I wrote an article for the 'Watch about it. A smaller article, but touches on a few of these things. Not sure when it will be published, though.

 

[JDR13]

Crappier RPG's, like anything nowadays from Bethesda or BioWare, but also lots of other big name games today like Witcher 3 and even many lesser known games, have now completely thrown away this element. All in the name of mass-market appeal I guess. It's a quite large part of why most RPG's aren't nearly as good as they used to be. Needs to be talked about more than it is.

I'm not sure I would include The Witcher 3 there. There's no level-scaling for enemies in that game (unless you enable it), and it's pretty easy to stumble across something that can own you with one shot. The only caveat is that you can see what level an enemy is which does take away the element of surprise.

 

[daveyd]

I don't consider it one of the greatest RPGs of all times. I've completed BG1 a few times, but I've never managed to play BG2 / ToB all the way through. Think about as far as I got was the final fight with Irenicus.

I don't hate it. It has a lot going for it. The story is decent enough. There's interesting characters. Some of the quests are interesting. It's got D&D rules and lore. But the combat is tedious and occasionally frustrating. That's just me not liking RTwP I guess but man I can only watch characters hack n miss for so long... Perhaps I should try a party of mages or something but then I have to spam rest. I just don't think I have the patience.

 

[Stingray]

I don't consider it one of the greatest RPGs of all times. I've completed BG1 a few times, but I've never managed to play BG2 / ToB all the way through. Think about as far as I got was the final fight with Irenicus.

I've played both fully myself, also don't consider them to be among the greatest all time. The RTwP combat is just bad, they seemed fairly linear (or BG2 did at least), and for me personally, the story wasn't nearly as memorable as some other games.

Insert ToEE's 3.5 ruleset and turn-based combat into BG2 and then maybe it's ranked up there...