Baldur's Gate 3 - Jeff Vogel Analysis

[HiddenX]

Jeff Vogel likes to learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

Picking Apart Baldur's Gate 3, Part 1 (The Story)

Telling a complex story without too much annoying reading.

To show I am a serious game writer, I have made OC self-insert fan art of my head canon.
It took far longer than I wanted, because I was really busy finishing my own weird RPG (out March 27!), but I finally finished Baldur's Gate 3.

If you make video games, it's really important to pick apart notable games and find out what does and doesn't work. 90% of creating video games is finding the right ideas to steal. We all stand on the shoulders of giants, after all.

I'll end the suspense. Baldur's Gate 3 (BG3 for short) is brilliant, easily one of the best computer RPGs ever made. There is a LOT to learn here. I want to spend a couple posts picking the fibers apart and seeing the good things to learn (a bunch) and a few nitpicky problems.

(There are very, very minimal spoilers in this.)

This Is Great News For My Business

Flatteringly, PC Gamer asked for my opinions about Baldur's Gate 3. Being me, I focused on the business aspect of it.

I am always thrilled when a turn-based, story-heavy RPG makes it big. It makes fans of the genre, which, in turn, makes customers for me. The timing was perfect. Most people are done with Baldur's Gate 3 now, and those who still have a taste for the genre might try Geneforge 2 - Infestation. (Out March 27. Did I mention?)

Being old, I've now see the RPG genre be revolutionized by three different Baldur's Gate games. The first one came out in 1998 after a huge drought of RPGs and brought the genre back to life.

The second one came out in 2000 and combined cool gameplay, depth of story, and fully fleshed-out party members in a way never done before. (At the time, I publicly said that, if you haven't played Baldur's Gate 2, do so before you bother with any of my games. I am TERRIBLE at business.)

Honestly, Baldur's Gate 3 doesn't do anything truly new. It's a game where quantity has a quality all its own. This game does what has been done before at an unprecedented scale, level of detail, quality, fun, and just plain style. It's good, it's BIG, and the quality continues the whole way through.

[...]

Thanks Couchpotato!

More information.

 

[Morrandir]

Honestly, Baldur's Gate 3 doesn't do anything truly new. [...] This game does what has been done before at an unprecedented scale, level of detail, quality, fun, and just plain style.

That sums it up pretty well.

 

[largh]

Anyone else getting tired of saving the world?

I loved the EA and Act 1 of BG3, but once the story went to world saving and grave consequences, I lost my interest. Still need to motivate myself to finish the game...I feel that especially Act 3 was an endless grind with poor writing which I could not stomach. Sure, that's D&D, but they did have some good stuff in the beginning. It didn't help that in Act 3 you were so overpowered that even arch-devils stood no chance (and could not level up more). A pity that they did not manage to keep the quality until the end. It would be refreshing to play a fantasy RPG where you are nobody and saving yourself would be just enough.

 

[danutz_plusplus]

Yeah, I like when the main plot is something personal for the main character, that particularly affects them. Not the whole world.

 

[MaxEd]

That's what I liked about Kingmaker (and Jeff's own games - at most, you get to save a state, or rather decide its fate, but there are no demonic hordes waiting to conquer all). WoTR is a bit less to my liking in that respect, though to be fair, demons probably wouldn't conquer all of Golarion even if our party loses. And in Rogue Trader, well, I don't even know what's at the stake, really. But considering the general flavour of Warhammer lore, one sector falling to Chaos, or holding strong against it changes nothing anyway.

 

[Vaelith]

I don't see any practical difference between Baldur's Gate falling to the big brain vs Golarion falling to a demon invasion. Both are potentially dangerous to the whole world, both could be contained/defeated from a script point of view, if the original party of heroes failed to do it.

It did get a bit overboard in Wrath of the Righteous with killing a group of high ranking demons every third step, that was grind. BG3 had infintely more story content than combat, especially in Act 3.

In the end, if BG3 (being addressed as one of the best RPGs ever made by Jeff Vogel), can't make every RPG player happy, nothing will. And that's fine. It still made happy 96% of the people who played it (according to Steam/Metacritic), and for a game that has sold so many millions of copies, that's the best it gets, and the best it has ever been for a cRPG.

Do not be discouraged if you're in the remaining 4% of people, you can always try Jagged Alliance 3, a game for the ages, that will be forever remembered by the industry in golden uppercase letters for its deep pro-roleplay systems and character depth, incredible writing and story flow, masterfully calibrated combat with perfectly balanced encounters, and breath-taking graphics, animations and the most professionally acted triple-A voiceovers. A true prodigy from beginning to end.

 

[Morrandir]

Anyone else getting tired of saving the world?

I'm totally with you there. At least I'd have it split across 3 games (like in BG1, BG2, ToB) where the magnitude of the adventure increased as you went through.
But...

It didn't help that in Act 3 you were so overpowered that even arch-devils stood no chance

You don't fight any archdevil in the game.
If it's the guy I think you are thinking of (Raphael), he's a mere cambion.
Archdevils are a completely different level of power.

 

[Couchpotato]

DA 2 tried to buck the save the world trope decades ago, and yeah it wasn't well received. Look belittle the tropes all you want but theirs a reason those games sell.

It all boils down to power fantasy.

 

[Morrandir]

CP77 also sold well, without a plot to save the world.

I think it's just more difficult to write an engaging story with a lower impact on the world.

 

[largh]

Archdevils

Thanks for correction. My bad. I remembered wrong (plot reasons, you know why). Anyway, I feel the balance was off in Act 3 and the game wasn't interesting enough to keep on playing any longer because I could not care less saving the world. For what I care, it can burn

CP77 also sold well, without a plot to save the world.

I think it's just more difficult to write an engaging story with a lower impact on the world.

True. Sci-fi games have more often plots where they do not save the world, and saving yourself is the concept in the Cyberpunk IP...Yet, there are plenty of novels, also D&D, where they do not save the world. Maybe a city at most.

 

[Redglyph]

Anyone else getting tired of saving the world?

It didn't bother me, but I see what you mean, and I agree that the last chapter could have been more balanced. I can understand why they were eager to choose an epic story for that particular game, though.

It has a number of quests to keep your feet on the ground, at least. Even in the last act, you have to close the companion quest lines. I didn't experience it as an 'endless grind with poor writing'; what do you mean by that? I suppose the grind part is because we can't go beyond level 12 and remain there for the better part of act 3? That was a little frustrating.

 

[Vaelith]

Most of us will all agree that it's not a requirement to have a save the world plot for a game to sell well. The requirement for a game to sell well is really to be a great game. It may just be that recently, games with "save the world" plots have just been better in general, because they tend to contain deeper plots with more intricate narratives.

To me it makes no difference whether it's about saving the world or saving Tim's garden. If the game is good, then it's good. I don't draw or attribute any value to what the overarching plot is about, only about its quality.

 

[bizorker]

“If you want a compelling game that builds a passionate fanbase, interesting storytelling is the most cost-effective way to do it. Pay attention to your writing, developers. A good story costs as much as a bad story and is far, far more compelling.”

This so resonates with me. Both the importance of writing and the fact that it is huge bang for your developer bucks.

 

[largh]

It has a number of quests to keep your feet on the ground, at least. Even in the last act, you have to close the companion quest lines. I didn't experience it as an 'endless grind with poor writing'; what do you mean by that? I suppose the grind part is because we can't go beyond level 12 and remain there for the better part of act 3? That was a little frustrating.

I meant that the game would just drag on even when levelling had already stopped a long ago. The companion guests I managed to finish (Shadowheart, Wyll, Astarion) were pretty poorly written and grandiose (in my opinion). So were many of the other guests in Baldur's Gate (city). The main plot seemed well written and engaging, though. Yes, I also see why they went for that grandioseness, but it didn't click for me. That said, I did like the game. It had its moments, but overstayed its welcome as so many other RPGs do. I'd remember someone here explained the reason for variable level of writing (had something to do which writers they used for which parts). I'll certainly revisit the game later once I have recovered from my burn-out with it.

 

[Carnifex]

Once again Vogel nails it perfectly. Now I'm even more eager to try out the game!

 

[Andrew23]

DA 2 tried to buck the save the world trope decades ago, and yeah it wasn't well received. Look belittle the tropes all you want but theirs a reason those games sell.

It all boils down to power fantasy.

Story and writing was least of the DA2 problems.

 

[Couchpotato]

Story and writing was least of the DA2 problems.

Never said otherwise did I. The game was a good example of not saving the world. It was a story of family drama. I would love to see more similar better RPGs.

My point was save the world trope laden RPGs sell for a reason.

 

[JDR13]

@largh Why are you triggering people like that?

 

[Morrandir]

It has a number of quests to keep your feet on the ground, at least.

I love it that in the final epic act you have to kill rats in a tavern's cellar.

 

[NFLed]

In my view the biggest negative or the great game BG3 is that experience points are given too often, which led almost all of act 3 being played with no ability to level up. Leveling up in some way (beyond only loot) is one of the key driving forces of most every RPG for me. I would have preferred slower level advancement. For me this is a nitpick, though, as the game was great throughout.