Expansion vs. DLC

[Leoking]

What do you think is the biggest determining factor to calling something 'DLC' and something else an 'expansion'?

I don't mean this question in a literal sense, as both are post-launch downloadable content, I mean more than what would you call an expansion and what is something DLC?
RPGs among other big games in the past several years made it so that DLC is more referred to as small chunks of content and an expansion as a huge, monumentally-sized content that expands upon the original so much so that it could've been released as a standalone game. It would've been just as good.

 

[JFarrell71]

As you said yourself, it's all DLC. A valid question might be by what criteria do you consider DLC to be worthy of being called an "expansion". If you look on the Skyrim Dragonborn Steam page: DLC. If you search for Assassin's Creed: Valhalla DLC, you get everything they put out for it. The very specific, very well defined term "DLC" does not, except in the minds of some stubborn users, have anything to do with size.

What would I consider an expansion? It's subjective. I don't just buy DLC for RPGs, I also buy them for a lot of strategy games, and the measurements of size in those are quite different. I consider a DLC to be an expansion when it is substantial... what does "substantial" mean? There are no concrete stats for that. It's more of a feeling that it introduces enough content, new mechanics, etc to be considered a major add-on to the base game.

 

[Qayto]

I would expect an expansion to significantly expand the game with more story, mechanics and locations, adding some hours to the game time.

DLC can cover anything from just adding some new dresses or tunes on the radio. DLC might only be encouraging a re-play of the same story.

 

[Carnifex]

Expansion to me is more content, DLC is more cosmetics and such.

 

[Couchpotato]

To me DLC is usually smaller rushed out content like skins, items, and maybe missions. The term expansion usually meant a full size game game release.

They were never the same thing but most nowadays just use DLC.

 

[soola]

Whatever the case *old man sigh* it ain’t what it used to be.

Comparing Baldur’s Gate 2: Throne of Bhall to some “expansion” these days is sort of silly.

For instance, for the criteria considered an “expansion” from what I’ve read so far: any Season 1 or 2 DLC for Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous could be considered an “expansion“ but even a whole “season” of these DLCs is much smaller than expansions of yore.

*old man grumble*

 

[JFarrell71]

Whatever the case *old man sigh* it ain’t what it used to be.

Comparing Baldur’s Gate 2: Throne of Bhall to some “expansion” these days is sort of silly.

For instance, for the criteria considered an “expansion” from what I’ve read so far: any Season 1 or 2 DLC for Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous could be considered an “expansion“ but even a whole “season” of these DLCs is much smaller than expansions of yore.

*old man grumble*

There have always been expansions of varying size. They haven't gotten smaller over time in some broad sense. Phantom Liberty is one of the most recent RPG expansions, and it's quite large, and much bigger than the Baldur's Gate 1 expansion Tales From the Sword Coast.

 

[soola]

Yeah it doesn’t work in every sense probably depends on the production and/or development companies more than anything.

Given Larian’s messages about this sort of stuff (overcharging for play, etc) wouldn’t it be badass if they released a massive expansion for BG3 to shake up the industry again?

Ah, one can dream.

 

[JFarrell71]

It doesn't work in every sense because: A) DLC and expansion are not mutually exclusive terms and B) DLC have always been large, small and everything in between and the passage of time has nothing to do with it.

I wouldn't begrudge those who want it a DLC for BG3, but Larian has never been big on add-ons for their games. Sometimes a game is, quite literally, big enough, and BG3 certainly fits that category. I think it's easier to create a large expansion for a sandbox style game. BG3 has a deeply intertwined narrative with a distinct end point. When you have that, you end up getting the kind of DLC Mass Effect did, which were mostly short and not directly connected to the main game. (With the exception of Awakenings, which is kind of a miniature version of Origins).

 

[soola]

There have always been expansions of varying size. They haven't gotten smaller over time in some broad sense. Phantom Liberty is one of the most recent RPG expansions, and it's quite large, and much bigger than the Baldur's Gate 1 expansion Tales From the Sword Coast.

You’re right though.

CDPR - good about expansions (Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077)
Owlcat - decent (not much content but better than many others)
Crusader Kings 3 - so so (some add more play, some are pure fashion-oriented upgrades)

*old man tears*

 

[JFarrell71]

Crusader Kings 3 - so so (some add more play, some are pure fashion-oriented upgrades)

Yeah, I haven't gotten the new one yet. North African clothes, I think it is. I have been happy with their DLC otherwise, though, moreso than for most of the Paradox games.

There are quite a few RPG DLC I've skipped over the years, even for games I loved. It's easier for me to do because of the narrative aspect of an RPG... DLC either adds to a story I already played, or it adds a little side thing of inconsequential size. Either way, I have a tough time getting back into it. I'm a lot more addicted to strategy game DLC because they all just add options to and expand on the game, and I replay strategy games as a matter of course.

 

[bkrueger]

A long time ago, when we bought games on discs, there were also expansions delivered on discs. So historically not every expansion was downloadable. Today they are, so technically expansions are a subset of DLCs today. On the other hand the first DLCs could only be small for bandwidth reasons, therefore the term was historically connected to small cosmetic additions like special armour or weapons and things like that. In these old times the two terms could be clearly distinguished.

For today's situation I agree to earlier posters that everything is downloadable content now. Considering platforms like steam even the base games are downloadable content, if you think about it...

Today I use the term expansion like others said before: It has to add new story parts and maybe world areas to the game and not only some cosmetics or items. So it is like a small sequel to the game, not completely new, but expanding the base game, as the name says.

 

[JFarrell71]

A long time ago, when we bought games on discs, there were also expansions delivered on discs. So historically not every expansion was downloadable.

Of course. I thought it was obvious enough not to require mention that DLC did not exist as a term before people downloaded anything.

By the way.... I barely remember add-ons being a thing before people could download them. I bought a ton of games in the 1980s and 1990s, but can't recall buying a single expansion for any game, and off the top of my head, I can't think of any that existed. I'm not saying they didn't, but could you give me an example or two? I feel like companies didn't even try, for the most part, to sell add-ons to existing games when games were all delivered as physical media. It was the transition to digital delivery that really changed things and allowed companies to think in terms of products that kept going, with ongoing patching, add-ons, etc. And of course games played online to begin with.

 

[bkrueger]

Of course. I thought it was obvious enough not to require mention that DLC did not exist as a term before people downloaded anything.

My post wasn't meant to dispute what you said. I only wanted to add the historic context, because it explains, why people may have slightly different interpretations of the terms even today.

 

[Redglyph]

For me, DLC means downloadable (additional) content, so it's an expansion you can download: it's a subset of the expansions. As said above, both have now the same meaning since all expansions can be downloaded and it's almost exclusively how they're available. I don't think that other parameters like the size have anything to do with it.

 

[bkrueger]

By the way.... I barely remember add-ons being a thing before people could download them. I bought a ton of games in the 1980s and 1990s, but can't recall buying a single expansion for any game, and off the top of my head, I can't think of any that existed. I'm not saying they didn't, but could you give me an example or two? I feel like companies didn't even try, for the most part, to sell add-ons to existing games when games were all delivered as physical media. It was the transition to digital delivery that really changed things and allowed companies to think in terms of products that kept going, with ongoing patching, add-ons, etc. And of course games played online to begin with.

Not in the 80s and 90s, more the 00s, but in my shelf I find for example the following physical expansion CDs/DVDs:
- Night of the Raven (for Gothic 2)
- Legends of Aranna (for Dungeon Siege)
- Broken Worlds (for Dungeon Siege 2)
- Deathkings of the Dark Citadel (for Hexen)
- Immortal Throne (for Titan Quest)
- Bloodmoon and Tribunal (for Morrowind)
- Extraction Point (for F.E.A.R.)
- Shadows of Undrentide (Undernzit in germany; for Neverwinter Nights)
- Underworld (for Sacred)
Hope that helps

 

[soola]

Of course. I thought it was obvious enough not to require mention that DLC did not exist as a term before people downloaded anything.

By the way.... I barely remember add-ons being a thing before people could download them. I bought a ton of games in the 1980s and 1990s, but can't recall buying a single expansion for any game, and off the top of my head, I can't think of any that existed. I'm not saying they didn't, but could you give me an example or two? I feel like companies didn't even try, for the most part, to sell add-ons to existing games when games were all delivered as physical media. It was the transition to digital delivery that really changed things and allowed companies to think in terms of products that kept going, with ongoing patching, add-ons, etc. And of course games played online to begin with.

It’d be an interesting project to number crunch on expansions over time.

Do expansions add:
1. Optional/enriching story content
A. New mini-game (kingdom management in BG2: ToB)
B. Parallel story, enriching main story
C. New quests
2. Epilogue content (akin to a sequel)
3. New classes
4. New combat mechanics/spells/skills
A. Turn-based mode for PoE: Deadfire (btw I know this wasn’t an expansion, but an upgrade)
5. New weapons or armor
6. New companions (usually tied to 1C and/or 3)
7. New clothes/make up/looks

 

[Qayto]

By the way.... I barely remember add-ons being a thing before people could download them. I bought a ton of games in the 1980s and 1990s, but can't recall buying a single expansion for any game, and off the top of my head, I can't think of any that existed. I'm not saying they didn't, but could you give me an example or two?

I would have said Baldur's Gate 1&2, Half Life and I think Doom (from games I owned) but now we're having this discussion and I'm doubting myself. Were they actually expansions or really standalone?

Dang, the passage of time does odd things to memory.

 

[Redglyph]

Do expansions add:
1. Optional/enriching story content
A. New mini-game (kingdom management in BG2: ToB)
B. Parallel story, enriching main story
C. New quests
2. Epilogue content (akin to a sequel)
3. New classes
4. New combat mechanics/spells/skills
A. Turn-based mode for PoE: Deadfire (btw I know this wasn’t an expansion, but an upgrade)
5. New weapons or armor
6. New companions (usually tied to 1C and/or 3)
7. New clothes/make up/looks

Those are all expansions by definition, so yes.

 

[JFarrell71]

Not in the 80s and 90s, more the 00s, but in my shelf I find for example the following physical expansion CDs/DVDs:
- Night of the Raven (for Gothic 2)
- Legends of Aranna (for Dungeon Siege)
- Broken Worlds (for Dungeon Siege 2)
- Deathkings of the Dark Citadel (for Hexen)
- Immortal Throne (for Titan Quest)
- Bloodmoon and Tribunal (for Morrowind)
- Extraction Point (for F.E.A.R.)
- Shadows of Undrentide (Undernzit in germany; for Neverwinter Nights)
- Underworld (for Sacred)
Hope that helps

Were any of them released before games were available digitally? I'm just curious if there was ever a model where you had to buy the game AND the add-on physically and there was no alternative. I didn't own any of these until I had the games digitally myself.