JK Rowling and her trans views

[dteowner]

Not sure you should expect some kind of apology out of Ripper for the rhetoric of the left. He was defending J. K. Rowling's right to an alternative viewpoint long before it became popular, if it has yet.

Oh, I don't at all. Not the point. It's' more a conceptual bashing of the progressive eyerolls which he articulated. They, and the venomous accusations of transphobia that went with them, were misplaced then and remain moreso today. Ripper's personal stance on the situation is incidental to the topic.

 

[Pladio]

Oh, I don't at all. Not the point. It's' more a conceptual bashing of the progressive eyerolls which he articulated. They, and the venomous accusations of transphobia that went with them, were misplaced then and remain moreso today. Ripper's personal stance on the situation is incidental to the topic.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think part of the issue as I see it is that many times far-right people would have used the toilet thing as an excuse for all of the other transphobic hatred. It seemed to me like just one way of pushing trans people away from public spaces.

As a sole argument it may have made sense to look at, but far too often innocuous looking arguments about a specific matter can hide overall views on an entire group.

As an example here in the UK, I've heard people say things about how India/Pakistani people are dirty because some takeaways (specifically from those communities) had received bad hygiene ratings at some point in the past. The point of the bad hygiene in restaurants is very valid as we would eat there, but then making it seem like the whole of South-Asian communities in the UK are dirty is not.

In the same vein, it's not because toilets are one issue that it's ok to be against trans people and I think the challenge with many people is that is how they think.

They see two or three issues (e.g. toilets, sports) and then conclude that trans is bad.
Most cis people have not even met trans people, yet think they can understand what trans people think or feel.



It's a bit like how communities who don't know gay people are more likely to be against homosexuals - statistically speaking.

 

[daveyd]

Regarding the whole toilet issue… I find the notion that laws that would make it so only cis-gendered women can use the ladies room would actually prevent sexual assaults pretty ridiculous. The implication seems to be that there's would-be predators out there who think "I was going to sneak into the ladies room and rape someone, but I sure don't want to break the law by going into the wrong bathroom!"

Sorry, but the fact you find a story of a *checks notes* apparently cis-gendered man wearing a skirt attempting to assault someone in the ladies room is not evidence of a widespread problem, nor that such laws would solve it. Here's a story of a man sneaking into a ladies room and attempting to rape a woman (who fortunately fought him off). Gee, it's almost as if bathroom rules aren't going to deter sexual predators.

Look if we were really concerned with deterring sexual predators, how about we do something about tens of thousands of rape kits which go untested in the USA? Strange that we never hear the right-wingers talk about this. Until they make testing every rape kit a top legislative priority, and maybe stop openly mocking the notion of consent, I won't consider their commotion about dangers of letting people pee in the bathroom they're most comfortable using as anything more than bullshit.

As far as Chapelle goes… Seems to be another case of a comedian mistaking saying "edgy" stuff for comedy. George Carlin managed to be subversive and still funny. There's a clip of Carlin going around lately which seems relevant here:

Though I find it hard to have sympathy for rich celebrities in general, I don't think Chapelle or Rowlings should be canceled or anything. But when someone with a huge platform says controversial shit, they shouldn't be surprised when it creates a shitstorm. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

 

[Capt. Huggy Face]

But I missed Chapelle's attack on trans folks in his last comedy show, "The Closer." What exactly did he say that was so disparaging to trans folks? I heard him disagree with some of their rhetoric, but I didn't hear a single attack.

 

[Couchpotato]

But I missed Chapelle's attack on trans folks in his last comedy show, "The Closer." What exactly did he say that was so disparaging to trans folks? I heard him disagree with some of their rhetoric, but I didn't hear a single attack.

Watch Dave Chappelle Address Trans Community Controversy

In one widely-circulated clip from The Closer, Chappelle blasted people for “cancelling” J.K. Rowling. ““Effectually Effectually, she said gender was a fact, the trans community got mad as shit, they started calling her a TERF. I didn’t even know what the fuck that was, but I know that trans people make up words to win arguments…This is a real thing. This is a group of women that hate transgender woman–they don’t hate transgender women, but they look at trans women the way we Blacks might look at blackface. It offends them. Like ‘Ugh, this bitch is doing an impression of me.’

 

[Capt. Huggy Face]

I don't consider the TERF business to be an attack. The term is simply part of the rhetoric of some trans folks. It's their own term they made up, which includes an unjustified accusation within itself. Just because a man, for example, might feel like a woman for his whole life, it doesn't change the fact he had male genitalia for much of his life, before choosing to have it surgically altered. I support his right to do this, but let's not ignore history. His personal history might include feeling like a woman, but his life with male genitalia is equally no small part of what he, now she, is today, and that is, whether trans folks want to believe it or not, not the same thing as being born a woman in mind and body.

 

[JDR13]

But I missed Chapelle's attack on trans folks in his last comedy show, "The Closer." What exactly did he say that was so disparaging to trans folks? I heard him disagree with some of their rhetoric, but I didn't hear a single attack.

Have you watched it? It's only 72 minutes long, and he literally spends about 50 minutes talking about trans people.

It's not all bad of course, but I couldn't help feeling like there was an underlying agenda, and him talking about how he was friends with 1 trans person doesn't cancel out all the time he's spent bashing the LGBT community.

It didn't affect me personally since I'm not part of that community, but I can see how others would be irritated. I was just annoyed that he spent that much time on one subject, and it wasn't very funny. It was the first stand-up of his that I felt was a waste of my time.

 

[Capt. Huggy Face]

I agree it wasn't very funny. That's what happens when you make every damn thing political, even for those who are dragged into it out of a perceived need to defend themselves.

 

[daveyd]

Well the TE in TERF stands for "Trans-exclusionary" so if someone self-identifies as a TERF, it doesn't seem like an unreasonable conclusion to assume they have some sort of issue was trans people. In Dave Chappelle's case I don't suspect malicious intent though, I think he's just very uninformed about the subject.. which is probably why it would've been smart to talk about something else. And actually be funny. Then again this is getting him a ton of attention and there's an old saying that all publicity is good publicity.

 

[Carnifex]

I saw Chapelle's latest concert, and compared to the earlier ones and the two times I was fortunate enough to see him live, it was....well, very much less-than. I'm stunned that it was actually put out, it should have either been completely redone or edited with actual funny material added in.

 

[Couchpotato]

On the topic of tran indoctrination here you go.

Connecticut Students Learn about Being Transgender with "Social Justice Standards"

Link - https://www.yahoo.com/now/kindergarten-students-connecticut-learn-being-223721237.html

One parent raised a red flag about When Aidan Became a Brother, a book being taught to fourth grade students that the parent described as “full on gender theory” which is teaching students that the sex you’re assigned at birth is “wrong.”

“When Aidan was born, everyone thought he was a girl. His parents gave him a pretty name, his room looked like a girl’s room, and he wore clothes that other girls liked wearing,” the description of the book reads. “After he realized he was a trans boy, Aidan and his parents fixed the parts of his life that didn’t fit anymore, and he settled happily into his new life.”

When Aidan’s parents announce they’re having a second child, Aidan “wants to do everything he can to make things right for his new sibling from the beginning” including choosing the best name and picking out the right decor and clothes. The book asks what “making things right” actually means.

 

[Corwin]

Where do I throw up!!

 

[JDR13]

I'm not familiar with the book, but something tells me there's probably more to it than "the sex you’re assigned at birth is wrong".

That said, I'm not sure it sounds like something necessary for fourth graders.

 

[Carnifex]

Good grief....somewhere parents have to be held accountable. I know that's an ugly word in the US, but man, it's time to reconcile with some hard truths.

 

[Cacheperl]

It's not all bad of course, but I couldn't help feeling like there was an underlying agenda, and him talking about how he was friends with 1 trans person doesn't cancel out all the time he's spent bashing the LGBT community.

Rather than an underlying agenda, what I think you notice is his frustration and pushback against a community that keeps attacking him (and others).

Overall, there were some quite funny parts in The Closer, while other parts were quite tough to hear. Which isn't exactly surprising for Chapelle, unless you are only familiar with Chapelle's Show (which certainly had a different tone), rather than his recent standup stuff.

 

[MAHak]

Regarding the curriculum on transgender inclusion being taught in that US elementary school it really comes off as a rather innocent attempt to teach children about alternative lifestyles/choices and not some indoctrination effort. But I guess if you're an american conservative whose one and only family-norm is a married cisgendered heterosexual couple living with their cisgendered children in a Christian household, then I guess you would feel very threatened about any deviance to that norm you were indoctrinated to…. erh I mean the common sense lifestyle that God wants us to live. That being said there IMO certainly is a lower age restriction of when to teach children about these subjects.

Oh and to make sure that we're all on the same page. We all know that most conservative politicians and pundits in the Western world, and in particularly in the US, exacerbate and blows out of proportions any and all topics (like transgender issues) relating to the Culture War, right?!
The rationale for this is that if you can convince the average voter that suppressing trans rights, prohibiting any gun regulation no matter how minuscule and sensical, not allowing women the right to abortion and preventing children from being taught anything that might put a nuisance on the in every way utterly glorious history of the US, is much more important than the economic and financial issues that effects most Americans. Doing so is infinitely more beneficial to the economic well being of wealthy americans (which includes almost all american conservative politicians and pundits). As legislating on these Culture Wars issue cost nothing to them compared to the taxes that they would have to dodge, pertaining to legislation that would redistribute some of their wealth in order to improve the lot in life for the vast majority of Americans.

 

[JDR13]

Rather than an underlying agenda, what I think you notice is his frustration and pushback against a community that keeps attacking him (and others).

Overall, there were some quite funny parts in The Closer, while other parts were quite tough to hear. Which isn't exactly surprising for Chapelle, unless you are only familiar with Chapelle's Show (which certainly had a different tone), rather than his recent standup stuff.

No, I've seen all his standup stuff, and The Closer just sucks. Period.

As for his "frustration and pushback", even if that's indeed what it was, he should have been smarter than to let it overwhelm the act the way it did.

 

[JDR13]

That sounds like wishful thinking.

*Edit* Was a reply to Taterhead who deleted his comment afterwards like he has a habit of doing sometimes.

 

[Corwin]

I think Couch is too old to trigger his member!!

 

[Couchpotato]

I think Couch is too old to trigger his member!!

Don't know what he said as I got JDR on my ignore list permanently.

Makes my day on this site bearable when I don't have to read his comments.