Drithius
Magic & Loss
The final mission in the personal story is actually some of the most riveting gameplay I've ever partaken of, MMO or otherwise. Speaking of GW2.
Yes, that's the main problem with MMO games in general. Imagine Middle Earth populated by hordes of Gandalfs, killing Sauron again and again for loot. Makes no sense. But I sense some sort of irony when I consider hordes of soulless players…How does this plot even begin to make sense? Every single one of the zillions of players is "The special one"?
Everquest 1 and 2 are both alive and doing well. I've played a few online games, and none do it quite as well as these two have. I still raid in EQ2, Sony briefly dabbled with the toilet that is social bullcrap but they quickly backed off a few years ago, and the game has improved for it. Warcraft held my interest for 5 days, EQ has had me since 1998.
-Carn
This is why MMO shouldn't have stories based around the player. It just stupid and break immersion.
How does it break immersion? Read my previous post. Nothing at all in MMO stories breaks immersion because you usually never know what the other players are doing. Just because you see other adventurers in the game world doesn't mean they are all soulless, or all the chosen one destined to save the world. Use your imagination a little.
How does it break immersion? Read my previous post. Nothing at all in MMO stories breaks immersion because you usually never know what the other players are doing. Just because you see other adventurers in the game world doesn't mean they are all soulless, or all the chosen one destined to save the world. Use your imagination a little.
Story was never really meant to be the primary aspect of the genre. I'm surprised how much attention this feature is getting, considering how weak most of the MMO designs are in the important ways.
Don't you mean it doesn't break immersion for YOU?
You know that players are running around doing exactly the same world-changing events as you are - and you can often SEE them doing it. Dozens of people running along the exact same path as you - killing the exact same mobs for the exact same reason.
I've gotten used to it, partially, but it's still an immersion-breaker from time to time.
It's key to appreciate that other people respond differently to these things without them being wrong about it.
The final mission in the personal story is actually some of the most riveting gameplay I've ever partaken of, MMO or otherwise. Speaking of GW2.
Yes, I meant it doesn't break immersion for me, but I thought that was implied. Anywho…
Yes, they are technically doing the same things you are, but how do you know that? Yes, you occasionally see people around, talking to the same NPCs as you, killing the same enemies, exploring the same locations, but you don't know WHY they are doing those things. They could be freelance mercenaries working for some new employer. They could be harvesting hides. Maybe they're talking to that NPC about something completely different. You just have to use your imagination a little .
I feel LOTRO is one of the most immersive experiences I've had in gaming, yet there's hundreds of other people running around. Maybe I'm just able to use my imagination well, but that's how it works for me.
A more direct example. I'm currently in the Mines of Moria in LOTRO. I see other players on their goats riding around all the time. So what? The dwarves have simply hired some people to help them retake the mines. Very simple to get past and not breaking immersion at all.
Fair enough.
So, when you go kill that super dangerous named spider - and it respawns a few minutes later and you see people killing the very same named spider all over again, you're imagining that they're freelance mercenaries?
I'm sorry, but that doesn't work for me. If the spider is named - it's unique and that means it can only be killed once.
I'm playing computer games because I like not having to use my imagination. Otherwise, I'd read books or go play outside like when I was a child.
Unfortunately, I'm no longer a child - and I can't pretend as well as I used to. So that's not an option for me. I'm counting on developers to make me suspend my disbelief and enable my immersion. I don't want to have to do the job myself.
I feel LOTRO is one of the most immersive experiences I've had in gaming, yet there's hundreds of other people running around. Maybe I'm just able to use my imagination well, but that's how it works for me.
As I said, that doesn't work for me.
Then again, I'm very different from you altogether - based on your exceedingly positive opinion about pretty much everything except low-budget games
Why would you be sticking around to watch others kill the named spider, though? Wouldn't you be running back to the quest giver at that point? Usually the game gives you enough time to get out of there before things respawn that you wouldn't notice something like this.
Seeing people kill the named spider I just killed could potentially bother me, but I haven't experienced that yet in my time with LOTRO.
An example of something funny. I did a quest to rescue someone's pet raven. I did the quest and saved the raven. A few minutes letter I went back to that location in order to grind some reputation items, and the raven was back in the spot I had just saved it from.
You run across stuff like that a lot in the game, I'll admit. If that bothers you then I could see where you're coming from.
Like I said, I've still been impressed by the immersion level I've experienced with LOTRO. Let's say this, the developers have done a pretty good job of hiding the inconsistencies. And what they couldn't fully hide usually just doesn't bother me much. Your mileage may vary, of course.
I'm not sticking around watching others - it's just the kind of thing that will happen.
I don't go turning in each quest as I complete it, I tend to complete all quests at once and THEN return. Which means this kind of thing happens quite often.
True.
You're probably pretty good at not seeing these things in general. I have that feeling about you
I guess that depends on how much I'm enjoying something. If I like what I'm playing I'm more forgiving of it's faults, I guess.
Nah, it's not that big of a deal. You must understand, I've played MMOs for at least 15 years - and I've seen the genre evolve and devolve.
I consider this kind of thing a relatively minor issue - and I think the people most bothered by it are the people with the least experience playing MMOs. The same kind of people who resist playing because it used to be subscription only - and who suck so bad at math they think it's a bad deal even if you enjoy the game
You get used to these things - but they don't go away entirely. Not for me, anyway.
Yeah, I'm pretty used to it in LOTRO, so it doesn't bother me much.
The more emphasis they put on the player as the key in the story - the worse it gets. Some games solve it by putting everything story-related in instances where no other player can participate - like they did in SWtOR, but it still doesn't quite work.
Hmm, I haven't really experienced this. Again, I can only speak for LOTRO, but I feel the story is executed well in that game, and there is a large emphasis on you being the hero who is doing everything, etc. I guess that means they've done a good job with LOTRO in this regard. If they'd have done a poor job crafting the story, then I would probably understand more where you're coming from here.
I honestly feel the story aspect of LOTRO is just as strong as any single-player RPG I've ever played. I don't feel any sacrifice in story quality playing LOTRO, but I do feel a huge increase in quantity, which is an added bonus, really.
LOTRO is one of the better MMOs - even despite the many flaws.
I have many issues with the game, but I won't dwell on them. No reason to drag it down when you're enjoying it so much
Eh, it won't really bother me. I would be curious to read your thoughts on LOTRO, though. If you feel like posting them then go for it
DArtagnan said:I consider this kind of thing [respawns] a relatively minor issue - and I think the people most bothered by it are the people with the least experience playing MMOs. The same kind of people who resist playing because it used to be subscription only - and who suck so bad at math they think it's a bad deal even if you enjoy the game.
Meh… well, I've been playing MMOs since 2001 and I personally loathe the shift to the F2P standard. Personally, I don't find it a coincidence that every new MMO in the past five years has been a shallow forgettable experience. Compartmentalized, DLC-like F2P content breeds mediocrity and stagnation.
Eh, it won't really bother me. I would be curious to read your thoughts on LOTRO, though. If you feel like posting them then go for it
I'm playing computer games because I like not having to use my imagination. Otherwise, I'd read books or go play outside like when I was a child.
So, are you actually playing any sort of CRPG DArt? Because (as Roq pointed out) even if you play single player game you know (or should know) that there are thousands (if not millions) of other people doing exactly the same things that you are doing. If this awareness doesn't break your immersion in SPG why should it do so in MMO?
I mean it as an observation and not a criticism but I think that you "overintelectualize" something which, when taken apart too thoroughly, looses its power to entertain. In short, you don't see a forest for the trees…