10 days until DOOM!

Regarding the gamey aspect - I love that they don't take the game to serious, and the gamey aspect is part of that, and a direct connection to Doom 1 and 2, since those games were very gamey. It wouldn't be Doom and old school without the gamey aspects.

I can't say I agree with that. What was so gamey about Doom 1&2? They were pretty serious as far as games went in 1993-94. The only thing that I would consider gamey about them was the health and armor system and how there were pickups scattered all over the place.

I just find it really annoying in the new Doom when I enter a level and the base AI tells me that I can gain power-ups by completing a series of challenges - like killing two zombies with 1 shotgun blast or getting 5 glory kills. It's just incredibly silly.

They could have worked the weapon upgrade points into the story or environment instead. Have them be something we found on certain computer terminals for example. At least make it seem semi-plausible. Tbh, I would have preferred they didn't have the point system at all. The mods are enough imo.

It's not a deal breaker by any means, and I'm still enjoying the game. I just can't help thinking that it could have been better.
 
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Warning - Salty original Doom fan incoming!

I have no interest in this abomination.

I played all the originals with my dad many years ago, and still to this day we play them. They are all-time classics, wonderful, wonderful games that you can always go back to.

I watched a bit of the new Doom on YouTube, and it doesn't look like a Doom game to me.

I'm not a fan of most of the creature art. Sure, graphics are advanced, it's 2016, but the originals had better, well, everything, including art design in general.

Level design is almost like an arena shooter in the new Doom. Long, long way from the incredible level design of the older games.

It basically looks like a modern zombie-killing, alien-killing FPS with the Doom name slapped on it.

I could go on and on but the bottom line is, I would rather play the originals - Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Doom 64, then this....thing.

Just my 2 cents, as usual. :)
 
I can't say I agree with that. What was so gamey about Doom 1&2? They were pretty serious as far as games went in 1993-94. The only thing that I would consider gamey about them was the health and armor system and how there were pickups scattered all over the place.

I admit I partly meant "seen from a modern perspective". But even in 1994 they were quite gamey: The stuff you mentioned (pickups, health, armor) + very little story (by 1994 a bit more story wasn't uncommon in action games); powerups; abstract level design; systemic "puzzles" opposed to narrative driven puzzles (the same kind of items/world state is used in every level in the form of keycards and switches).

And I don't know about "They were pretty serious as far as games went in 1993-94"; I would say they were minimalistic, not serious. With Doom id set out to make an arcade game in first-person, greatly inspired by Gauntlet. Doom even had high scores and lives (no save games) far into development. And I feel the minimalistic and arcadey background is very present in the final games.

I just find it really annoying in the new Doom when I enter a level and the base AI tells me that I can gain power-ups by completing a series of challenges - like killing two zombies with 1 shotgun blast or getting 5 glory kills. It's just incredibly silly.

They could have worked the weapon upgrade points into the story or environment instead. Have them be something we found on certain computer terminals for example. At least make it seem semi-plausible. Tbh, I would have preferred they didn't have the point system at all. The mods are enough imo.

I find it refreshing since almost every character-driven action game today is supposed to feel as immersive and/or cinematic as possible. In Doom 2016 it's like they deliberately decided they wanted to avoid that, and I respect that they try to be different.
 
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I admit I partly meant "seen from a modern perspective". But even in 1994 they were quite gamey: The stuff you mentioned (pickups, health, armor) + very little story (by 1994 a bit more story wasn't uncommon in action games); powerups; abstract level design; systemic "puzzles" opposed to narrative driven puzzles (the same kind of items/world state is used in every level in the form of keycards and switches).

And I don't know about "They were pretty serious as far as games went in 1993-94"; I would say they were minimalistic, not serious. With Doom id set out to make an arcade game in first-person, greatly inspired by Gauntlet. Doom even had high scores and lives (no save games) far into development. And I feel the minimalistic and arcadey background is very present in the final games..

Having a minimalistic approach doesn't make something gamey. The original games had some arcade-like qualities and were a product of their time, but there was nothing that broke the Forth Wall like the example I gave above. Everything more or less made sense within the context of the games.

I don't expect things to be ultra realistic in a sci-fi game, but I can do without challenges and mini-games that have zero plausibility within the setting.

I find it refreshing since almost every character-driven action game today is supposed to feel as immersive and/or cinematic as possible. In Doom 2016 it's like they deliberately decided they wanted to avoid that, and I respect that they try to be different.

Nah, I don't think they were trying to be different in that way. After all, there are plenty of modern games that have such things. I think it's just a design decision that they thought would be appealing, and it probably is to most people.
 
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Having a minimalistic approach doesn't make something gamey.

I just meant that minimalism it one of the pieces of the final puzzle, not that it by itself makes something gamey. When I played Doom 1 and 2 for the first time, around 1994, I basically felt "this is pure gaming fun with a minimalistic approach and a touch of grit and horror". I didn't feel they were particular serious games.

Nah, I don't think they were trying to be different in that way. After all, there are plenty of modern games that have such things. I think it's just a design decision that they thought would be appealing, and it probably is to most people.

Plenty of TPS/FPS where challenges and similar gamey stuff are integrated into the single-player campaign? Can't say I've played or heard of many in the past 10 years. But I could be wrong. Actually I hope I'm wrong :)
 
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Having a blast with DOOM. I think I'm near the end, and I also think my choosing to play the game on Ultra-Violence may end up in me not being able to finish the game. Right now I'm on the rail, back on mars, after destroying VEGA's cooling systems.

And I'm on a really difficult fight, which I've retried now for at least 10 times, and haven't progressed much. I clear the first two Barons of Hell, then run through the onslaught of mancubuses, cacodemons and those absolutely annoying pinkies (which have a habbit of catching me around corners), and when I thought I actually had a chance to finish the fight, at least one more Baron of Hell gets spawned and rips me a new one. Jesus that got my blood boiling. I'm gonna retry it, but seeing as there's no way to lower the difficulty, I may not be able to finish the game. I'll see and report back. But, I'm having loads of fun with it.

And to Fluent, and his analysis of this DOOM and it not being up to snuff with the classic DOOMs. I only have a couple of words for you: You've no idea what you're talking about. I've no idea where you got your information, but you're waaaaayy off. Just my two cents. :)
 
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I just meant that minimalism it one of the pieces of the final puzzle, not that it by itself makes something gamey. When I played Doom 1 and 2 for the first time, around 1994, I basically felt "this is pure gaming fun with a minimalistic approach and a touch of grit and horror". I didn't feel they were particular serious games.

They were at least serious enough that they didn't do anything to break the forth wall. I also think most people would agree that the overall tone and atmosphere were pretty serious. Mutilated bodies, satanic symbols, etc, and the art style was as serious as 1993 graphics would allow.

Plenty of TPS/FPS where challenges and similar gamey stuff are integrated into the single-player campaign? Can't say I've played or heard of many in the past 10 years. But I could be wrong. Actually I hope I'm wrong :)

I have to wonder where you've been then, because there are lots of major titles with that kind of stuff…usually to my disappointment. The Far Cry series, The Assassin's Creed games, GTA series, Saints Row, Red Dead Redemption… those are just off the top of my head.
 
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I'm gonna retry it, but seeing as there's no way to lower the difficulty, I may not be able to finish the game. I'll see and report back. But, I'm having loads of fun with it.

You sure about that? I thought I read that you could change the difficulty level at any time.

I'm also playing on Ultra-Violence and it feels just right to me, but I'm not as far into the campaign as you are. Have you been exploring the levels thoroughly to gain optional upgrade points?
 
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Just finished the game and had a great time with it. It was much better than I expected, for the reasons set out in my earlier post. I'm going to have a break but I'll crank up the difficulty for another run through later this year.

The only gripes I had in the end were that the boss battles felt a bit unimaginative, and the enemy placement wasn't great - I didn't like the way it just continually spawned enemies around you. In the original Doom there were plenty of traps that would dump demons on you, but they were carefully placed. But it's a minor complaint and definitely didn't spoil my enjoyment of a great game.
 
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Anyone else having random crashes? No error message.. it just drops me back to my desktop sometimes. A quick look at the Steam forum indicates that it's happening to a lot of people. Very aggravating…

*Edit*
There was a small (about 60mb) update today, and I haven't had a crash since. Knock on wood. :)
 
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Happened to me a couple of times. I had a few freezes during loading screens as well, which resolved with alt-tabbing bizarrely. It didn't happen enough to be a real annoyance though.
 
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That's quite an analysis from someone who hasn't played the game. :)

Nowadays you don't really have to play the game to see what it's like. Plenty of YouTube videos show some of the level design, character art, and other things I commented on in my post. :)

I warned you, I'm a salty, old-school Doom fan. I played Doom 3 and thought it was just ok, but obviously a huge departure from the Doom I like.

However, my dad really, really hated Doom 3. I thought it was "ok".

This new game just isn't speaking to me. It's not made for me, I accept that. I just wanted to rant a little bit. I'll go back to playing mod levels for the originals now. :)
 
And to Fluent, and his analysis of this DOOM and it not being up to snuff with the classic DOOMs. I only have a couple of words for you: You've no idea what you're talking about. I've no idea where you got your information, but you're waaaaayy off. Just my two cents. :)

It's called an opinion. I formed it after watching several videos of the new Doom in action. I have decided at this time that the game is not for me. :)
 
Nowadays you don't really have to play the game to see what it's like.

I think what you mean is that you don't have to play it to form an opinion. :)

That being said, it's your loss. I was going to say more, but I know from past experience that trying to tell you anything is usually a waste of time... and Doom is calling.
 
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Hey Fluent! I can understand your reservations with this after looking at video clips. I thought the glory kills stuff looked far to gamey and immersion breaking in the clips for example (and they bugged me when I first started playing it as well), but in the videos you don't get the sense of the control you have over when to use them them... and judging this becomes important, because you need to be close range to use glory kills but getting a successful one boosts health. It's a cool risk/reward thing that won't come across well in videos.

It is different to all the previous Dooms, but for me they nailed the speed and the risk assessment when you have loads of different creatures on the screen. And it turns out that shooting demons in the face with a double barrelled shotgun never gets old.

The level design is a bit mixed. The early levels are claustrophobic in a Doom 3 kinda way (not so good in my opinion), the later levels open up into the big arena bits you mention but also with key-hunting etc. There are loads of secrets - I barely found any of them in my play through, so there's no doubt loads of things I missed.

If you liked Dooms 1-3, I suspect you might enjoy this as well if you gave it a go. If the videos are really not selling it to you, maybe wait a couple of years and pick it up in a bargain bin... it might be a nice surprise. :)
 
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Hey Fluent! I can understand your reservations with this after looking at video clips. I thought the glory kills stuff looked far to gamey and immersion breaking in the clips for example (and they bugged me when I first started playing it as well), but in the videos you don't get the sense of the control you have over when to use them them… and judging this becomes important, because you need to be close range to use glory kills but getting a successful one boosts health. It's a cool risk/reward thing that won't come across well in videos.

While I appreciate them trying something new with this system, it really doesn't interest me much. Risk/reward can be cool, but in the context of having to get closer to enemies to kill them, not all that interesting to me.

Are there still very well-hidden blue/silver spheres to find that boost health immensely?


It is different to all the previous Dooms, but for me they nailed the speed and the risk assessment when you have loads of different creatures on the screen. And it turns out that shooting demons in the face with a double barrelled shotgun never gets old.

I could say the same about any of the originals I mentioned. It's still satisfying as heck to blast enemies with the double barrelled shotgun in the originals. Always has been. :)


As for speed and risk assessment, well, it looks almost a little *too* hectic for me. The originals can get really crazy at times, but they have a great pace.

The new one looks like Doom on speed in comparison. :p


The level design is a bit mixed. The early levels are claustrophobic in a Doom 3 kinda way (not so good in my opinion), the later levels open up into the big arena bits you mention but also with key-hunting etc. There are loads of secrets - I barely found any of them in my play through, so there's no doubt loads of things I missed.

Well, the levels I personally sat through and watched (and there were several), were, in my opinion, severely lacking to put it nicely.

I'm not a fan of many of the arena-style bits I saw, with monsters constantly spawning all over. Nor did I find any of the traditional space station levels very engaging at all.

The hell levels did not look nearly as good to me as the originals. Not even close. I mean, nostalgia or not, the original Doom games, to me, had incredible level design for the most part. Brilliant. That's why I still play them to this day, and even play fan-modded levels.

I mean, go back and explore some of the Hell levels from those games. A good majority of them, if not damn near all of them, are simply amazing.

I am glad to hear they have a lot of secrets. Are there secret walls? Timing puzzles? Multiple exits in some levels that lead to secret levels?


If you liked Dooms 1-3, I suspect you might enjoy this as well if you gave it a go. If the videos are really not selling it to you, maybe wait a couple of years and pick it up in a bargain bin… it might be a nice surprise. :)

I will probably pick it up in a bargain bin someday, maybe, if I ever get in the mood to play a modern shooter. I'm certainly not paying $60 right now or anything close, even if I could afford that.

My dad and I still play the originals today. They still offer a great challenge on the top 2 or so difficulty levels and are a lot of fun to play. :)

And thank you very much for the polite and detailed response! Appreciate it. :)
 
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They were at least serious enough that they didn't do anything to break the forth wall. I also think most people would agree that the overall tone and atmosphere were pretty serious. Mutilated bodies, satanic symbols, etc, and the art style was as serious as 1993 graphics would allow.

Gore/horror/grit doesn't necessarily equal a serious atmosphere, it also depends on other elements. It's not that I totally dismiss that the games had a serious element to them, just that I didn't think it was dominant.

I have to wonder where you've been then, because there are lots of major titles with that kind of stuff…usually to my disappointment. The Far Cry series, The Assassin's Creed games, GTA series, Saints Row, Red Dead Redemption… those are just off the top of my head.

I've spotted it in AC: Black Flag, and since Ubi like to use a formula for most of their main titles, I'm not surpprised if it's present in Far Cry. I played the first 10 hours of GTAIV and didn't see much gamey stuff. Saints Row… not surprised because of it's over-the-top nature. For RDR I've skimmed reviews, not wanting to read spoilers, and don't recall any mention of gamey stuff - but to the defense of the reviewers, it's not always important to mention these things in a review.

I just have to take your word for it that it's a common thing, I just haven't come by a lot of it.

I'm gonna retry it, but seeing as there's no way to lower the difficulty, I may not be able to finish the game. I'll see and report back. But, I'm having loads of fun with it.

You sure about that? I thought I read that you could change the difficulty level at any time.

You can change freely between the first three difficulty levels in the game settings. I guess that means that if you start higher than UV you either can't lower the difficulty, or, you can lower the difficulty but can't go back to the higher level.
 
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For RDR I've skimmed reviews, not wanting to read spoilers, and don't recall any mention of gamey stuff - but to the defense of the reviewers, it's not always important to mention these things in a review.

Dude. lol

There is so much game-y stuff in RDR. I mean, it was an interesting game for awhile, for sure, but after you've seen the 50th wagon theft, the 100th guy tied up being dragged by an angry gang, the 150th lady being harassed in the bar, etc. etc., it certainly is very much game-y.

Still, not a terrible game. I enjoyed it when it came out for quite awhile. At least up until about halfway through the Mexico section of the game. :)
 
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