Halo 3

[Asbjoern]

I mean, there's a difference in stating your opinion and the fine art of flamebaiting. In this case, it's probably unintentional, but the passion with which it is presented is strikingly similar.

What specifically is offending you in this thread, other than people having a different opinion than you?

 

[DArtagnan]

I think it's more annoyance over the fact that Halo is so popular, and it's sprouting all those doomsayers predicting the end of this or that and a future of bland, mediocre releases.

I don't doubt you're annoyed, and it's obvious that you think people are not being reasonable. But that really makes no difference now does it, because you've offered nothing to show why people are wrong. You're simply bitching because you don't like "mindless bashing". If you want to change anything, the best you can hope for is to do it through convincing arguments.

If you don't feel like arguing your case that Halo 3 doesn't deserve this reaction, then why don't you simply ignore the thread? That would seem to be simpler.

Jeez, look at me. I'm probably as far as from mainstream as I can be and I'm defending it. I must be losing my youth.

You may have been attempting to defend it, but in my mind you failed miserably. You point out that games are "sexy", and that they have to be big budget. That's exactly true of the mainstream, and that's exactly why the games ARE of lesser quality (to those of us bitching). There is no way around it. Appealing to the masses is pretty nearly always tantamount to not appealing to the minority. So there, you already know why people are bitching. Maybe it's time to accept it, or ignore it.

 

[Thaurin]

Its like reading books for instance. I doubt anyone minds if general public likes reading donald duck-books. But som might find it amusing and make a few jokes about it if people would award it to be the greatest literature ever written.

Well, that depends on the goal, doesn't it? Somewhere, someone decided that literature needed to "art" to be classified as such (with art being hard to classify itself). But if you just want to have some fun, Donald Duck might be able to provide it. Same with Halo, I guess. I mean, hordes of people think the game was more fun than stuffing your nose with chopsticks. That's why it broke records. It must be. It can't be that the game was just horrible on all fronts. It certainly put FPS on the console map.

In the end, Halo 2, for me, is a fun little shooter that is enriched very well by the story and broken up nicely with some great sequences such as land vehicles, flying vehicles and one neat little moment where you had to jump on one of those walking Scarab tanks from a bridge and eliminate all aliens on it controlling the thing. Strong gaming moment for me. So naturally it does something right. It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too.

Space marines ftw.

 

[Thaurin]

What specifically is offending you in this thread, other than people having a different opinion than you?

Nothing. I don't find it offensive any more than I find flamebaiting offensive. It's just that it's not simple opinion that's being stated, they have to bash other people's opinion as well (the "I don't understand what's so great about X" phenomenon) like it's so hard to understand that there are actually people that do think it's the best thing since the electric toothbrush. Then they throw something more on top of it by going on about how this or that is so much better and pinning some untruths and insults on the object of their hatred. *shrugs* That doesn't make for inspired reading for me and does resemble tactics used in flamebait.

 

[Thaurin]

If you don't feel like arguing your case that Halo 3 doesn't deserve this reaction, then why don't you simply ignore the thread? That would seem to be simpler.

Oh, probably because I do enjoy arguing this on a forum and reading through all the Halo 3 bashing, strangely. I go looking for the trolls whenever I want information about a product, like a game or a movie, as well as the positive reviews. Weird, huh. IMDB has a lot of trolls, by the way.

Appealing to the masses is pretty nearly always tantamount to not appealing to the minority. So there, you already know why people are bitching. Maybe it's time to accept it, or ignore it.

It's much easier to accept this way, thanks. But I hope my points are still noted. Hate it for the right reasons, not with feigned confusion over a product's success or arguable points.

 

[Asbjoern]

The Halo franchise hasn't done anything new or just slightly different for the FPS genre. The only thing it did was to introduce the FPS genre to the Xbox console. Where did Halo exactly innovate?

Great games aren't purely fun games. You need to be able to interpret something, if the game has to be great. Halo is mostly just about shooting and not story that lets you interpret.
And that is mostly why you've missed out on Half-Life 2. Half-life 2 is a game you need to interpret if you wish to enjoy it. The same goes for great movies, great music and great literature.

EDIT: Let us see if we can have a good discussion, so please understand my post above in a friendly manner.

 

[DArtagnan]

In the end, Halo 2, for me, is a fun little shooter that is enriched very well by the story and broken up nicely with some great sequences such as land vehicles, flying vehicles and one neat little moment where you had to jump on one of those walking Scarab tanks from a bridge and eliminate all aliens on it controlling the thing. Strong gaming moment for me. So naturally it does something right. It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too.

To be quite honest, I think you're missing the point entirely.

I doubt anyone here really thinks Halo (1-3) is a piece of crap objectively.

The problem with Halo 3, is the level of hype.

Let me state this again, just because it's so vital to my point:

The level of hype.

Why is that a problem?

Because a "decent" game is getting reviews that equate it to the second coming of christ. That's a very big problem, because it creates a perception in the public that they must possess this game. That's why it sells so incredibly well.

The problem with selling so well, is that it generates a beacon for every single developer motivated by money to follow. That will automatically reduce innovation and quality for years to come.

It's not the end of the world, but neither is it paranoia. It's a trend that has been developing for many years, and it gets steadily worse. Halo 3 won't change the market or future games by itself, perhaps, but it's another significant step in the wrong direction.

However, this is of course only true for those of us who want depth and complexity. For the masses, it's probably a great development. I can't deny that more people will be mildly pleased in the future, and only a handful (by comparison) will be significantly less pleased.

But I ask you:

Is it better to entertain a million people, if you can reach out and literally change the life of a few thousand (as has arguably been the case with games like Torment)?

It's much easier to accept this way, thanks. But I hope my points are still noted. Hate it for the right reasons, not with feigned confusion over a product's success or arguable points.

It's your flawed perception that I or people here literally hate Halo. I'd have to be a complete idiot to hate a game. When I played Halo, I found it reasonably well done, and I enjoyed multiplayer quite a bit.

The only thing I hate is a lie and the hype surrounding the Halo franchise is a lie.

 

[Asbjoern]

Well put, DArtagnan. Yes, the problem is that the Halo games are decent games that is treated like they are the best games ever made.
We can agree that they are fun (even though I don't consider them particularly fun), but they aren't intellectual in any way.

 

[Thaurin]

Is it better to entertain a million people, if you can reach out and literally change the life of a few thousand (as has arguably been the case with games like Torment)?

But the same has happened with the Halo franchise. Literally millions of people are enthralled with the whole thing and have had it make a significant impact on their lives, in one way or another. Now, I'm not a Halo fan at all-- I'm just checking out the series because I want to know. But we can like both, can't we? Games with a little depth and innovation (which I have never understood: why do we always need to be innovative?) and more shallow games should be able to live side by side. Halo does what it does admirably, and it's a popular genre as it turned out. That's why it's getting those reviews.

As for innovation, Halo 3 does innovate, primarily in the multi-player department and on the console market. Recording every match and level-editing has of course been around on the PC forever, but in this incarnation and on the Xbox 360, and coupled with the online sharing and community-building functionality of Bungie's servers and Xbox Live... it's Halo multi-player heaven to those than are really into that.

It's your flawed perception that I or people here literally hate Halo. I'd have to be a complete idiot to hate a game. When I played Halo, I found it reasonably well done, and I enjoyed multiplayer quite a bit.

The only thing I hate is a lie and the hype surrounding the Halo franchise is a lie.

Okay, so maybe it's just the hatred for the hype machine that spills over to the actual game a bit sometimes. But you'll have to ask the other posters if they actually hate the game; it's just a stupid game of course, but I've seen people going on and insulting Master Chief himself because they got so sick of the whole series. Hello? Made-up character?

Or maybe I've just been around the xbox.com forums too long when I was bored.

 

[DArtagnan]

But the same has happened with the Halo franchise. Literally millions of people are enthralled with the whole thing and have had it make a significant impact on their lives, in one way or another. Now, I'm not a Halo fan at all-- I'm just checking out the series because I want to know. But we can like both, can't we? Games with a little depth and innovation (which I have never understood: why do we always need to be innovative?) and more shallow games should be able to live side by side. Halo does what it does admirably, and it's a popular genre as it turned out. That's why it's getting those reviews.

Of course there's nothing I can say to disprove your claim that Halo has had similarly powerful effects on people, and indeed maybe it has. But for the moment I refuse to believe that, because my mind won't comprehend how that can be.

However, there are most likely people out there believing their life was literally changed when they saw The Rock or Transformers, so maybe I'm just not being fair here.

As for innovation, Halo 3 does innovate, primarily in the multi-player department and on the console market. Recording every match and level-editing has of course been around on the PC forever, but in this incarnation and on the Xbox 360, and coupled with the online sharing and community-building functionality of Bungie's servers and Xbox Live... it's Halo multi-player heaven to those than are really into that.

I personally don't crave innovation. Innovation for the sake of innovation is mostly worthless, but even when it's not just for its own sake it doesn't necessarily constitute a major quality. Some people obviously disagree.

There's no doubt that Halo 3 has a powerful multiplayer component, and it deserves praise for that, but there's no way that in itself makes the experience the best ever - as many would have us believe.

Okay, so maybe it's just the hatred for the hype machine that spills over to the actual game a bit sometimes. But you'll have to ask the other posters if they actually hate the game; it's just a stupid game of course, but I've seen people going on and insulting Master Chief himself because they got so sick of the whole series. Hello? Made-up character?

Or maybe I've just been around the xbox.com forums too long when I was bored.

I tend to avoid assuming stuff about people, because I find such a thing unfair. I don't always succeed, of course, but I generally do pretty well.

So, until I read someone specifically state they hate Halo 3 on this forum, I will not assume people complaining are actually hating.

 

[Asbjoern]

I only asked what innovation the Halo games had contributed with, because you wrote this, Thaurin:

It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too.

Did I misunderstand what you wrote?

 

[xSamhainx]

I disagree that video games are now sexy, far from it. I wish it was, I'd be beating the women off with a stick if that was the case.

I even have to kinda downplay my gaming fetish to my gf, who plays D&D, and is into fantasy type movies and art and what have you. A little D&D now and then is one thing, sitting in front of a pc playing bleep bleep bloop for hours on end is another. My mother, people at work, people I meet, whatever, this is like I'm in the closet about it or something except everyone that I know are fellow gamers. Mention it and see where it gets you. Video games as far as I can see are still looked upon by society at large as being for children, immature, and social rejects. Sorry, that's not sexy. It's just the way it is. There's no doubt that WoW and such has brought a lot of non-typical crowd into the gaming fold and opened some eyes out there, but at the end of the day, there's a lot of negative stigma still attached to gaming.

Look at the South Park episode about WoW, that's the general perception, "How can you kill something which has no life?". Gaming is about as sexy as chris farley!

 

[zakhal]

What should people then be doing instead if not playing games? Should they watch TV? Or collect stamps? Or buy a tortoise and watch it crawl around the room? Go to friends houses and talk with them? Have lots of babies?

I found it funny that people feel that they need to do "somthing else". I do what I want on my freetime as long as its not boring. And there are lots of stuff that is more undead than gaming i.e watching tv or reading.

Personally I need to go out regulary or else the gaming becomes too dull. Allthough after "refreshment" Im always content again on playing long hours even if time permits.

 

[xSamhainx]

Sitting on the sofa watching television all night = ok
Sitting on the sofa playing games all night = get a life!

This is prejudice, plain and simple ='.'=

 

[JDR13]

Sorry to go a little off topic for a second here, but does anyone know a way to play Halo 2 without having Windows Vista?

 

[Thaurin]

I only asked what innovation the Halo games had contributed with, because you wrote this, Thaurin:

"It's just not right seeing people saying that it does nothing new since Doom, which, by the way, featured a space marine too."

Did I misunderstand what you wrote?

Are you actually saying that Halo has nothing new over Doom? Halo may not have brought a whole lot new to the table of the entire FPS genre over all platforms (seeing as though consoles were the late-comers in the first place), but gameplay that works on console might be one. But compared to doom? Halo is more like Half-Life than Doom.

 

[txa1265]

Sorry to go a little off topic for a second here, but does anyone know a way to play Halo 2 without having Windows Vista?

I know that there are 'ways' to do it, but so far as I know they are all 'unsupported' cracks and will not allow you to play multiplayer. I had to borrow a Vista laptop since I'm on XP still.

 

[Thaurin]

And there are lots of stuff that is more undead than gaming i.e watching tv or reading.

Oh man, reading is not undead.

Sorry to go a little off topic for a second here, but does anyone know a way to play Halo 2 without having Windows Vista?

Yes, what he said. There are ways, but they are available on the torrent sites as cracked versions. You decide what to do with that information. Personally I despise Microsoft's decision to unnecessarily release it only for Vista to artificially try to move gamers to their new crap OS, so screw them I say.

 

[JDR13]

I'm not interested in warez, I want to play a legit copy. I also don't care about the multiplayer.

I think it's only a matter of time....

 

[Thaurin]

Buy a copy and do the same things that the cracked version does, which, I think, is install some Xbox Live stuff that Vista ships with by default. I call it fair use. I don't think Microsoft is ever going to release an XP patch.

Or do you expect DirextX 10 making an appearance on XP, too? Not before Microsoft really, really has to...