Balrum: Why RPGWatch isn't playing?

[Galaad]

For what it is worth: I am enjoying the game for the price I paid it was well worth it.

 

[ElderGnome]

It's a damn fun game if you aren't expecting it to solve world hunger, etc.

 

[Caddy]

It's a damn fun game if you aren't expecting it to solve world hunger, etc.

The irony is the game actually does solve world hunger indirectly. If you play the Windows version, then you needed to buy your OS from Microsoft, which in turn pays large stock dividends to Bill Gates, who uses that money to fund the largest non-profit organization in the world, that deals with solving world hunger. BAM!

 

[wiretripped]

Kind of a ridiculous argument, but it's the closest thing he has to an argument. Everything else boils down to "This game is bad because I don't like it, but I insist that my opinion is not subjective and everyone should agree with me".

That's Chien in a nutshell, yes. Not the only game he does this to. Darkest Dungeon is also on his hit-list, as is most stuff developed by Paradox.

I'm curious Chien about what games you like. I think people react to your comments so, because you usually write about certain games to warn people away and rarely praise anything. And you aren't the only one on the site who does it, so please don't feel like I'm singling you out. I know for example that ElderGnome is a big fan of Stranger in Sword City, and CRPGNut loves Might and Magic, so when they say what they like or don't like I can kind of see where they are coming from. So what RPGs do you think are worth buying. You're obviously disappointed by Balrum. What did you hope the game would be like?

Good luck in getting a non-mystifying answer. I asked the same question once because I was genuinely curious in what he *does* like, but he simply went on a rant on how that is irrelevant.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

I'm curious Chien about what games you like.

Same answer as usual.

Some people are urged to pour their tastes on everything. They like this, they like that. They have fun with this or that. It tells about them, it does not tell about the product.

Other people think that tastes should not be discussed as they are irrelevant. People like what they like. Liking something does not change that something. Somebody liking a broken car does not turn the car into a functional car.

Looking for the report of the tastes of someone who does not discuss tastes is foolish. It might be brutal in this era when people spend their time acting a different way than what they say.
Yes, when people say they wont discuss tastes, it start by not spending their time telling what their tastes are.

I think people react to your comments so, because you usually write about certain games to warn people away and rarely praise anything.

Warning people away? The cultural gap between the "I, me and myself"people and some other people shows to be large when you reach this kind of misinterpretation.

There is no warning away.

People like what they like. When people like broken cars, telling them of a broken car does not warn them away. It attracts them.

When people like to kill, rape etc, telling them of places where they can kill, rape etc do not warn them away. It attracts them.

This was already mentioned in the first post in this thread:

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061394201&postcount=21

And it was confirmed by the example with several posters buying the product after reading a depiction of the product.

 

[wiretripped]

I hate it when I am right.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

The same question gets the same answer.

And the answer is indeed cryptic as people keep asking to discuss tastes to people who do not discuss tastes.

Apparently, they cant get it that it is useless to ask this kind of questions.

He also sunk 100+ hours into Balrum. I love exploration and Balrum has that in spades.

The next Zelda game will have of all that in a greater quality and volume.

 

[Nyx]

The same question gets the same answer.

And the answer is indeed cryptic as people keep asking to discuss tastes to people who do not discuss tastes.

Apparently, they cant get it that it is useless to ask this kind of questions.

Their question is quite honest. If you keep discussing everything in a negative and cryptic manner and never reveal any games you like people won't take you seriously and/or just assume you're a troll. And they aren't wrong in doing so. Sorry but it's not about what they don't get.

 

[JDR13]

The next Zelda game will have of all that in a greater quality and volume.

While that may be true, Zelda is a very different style that might not appeal to the same gamers. Not to mention it's also going to be exclusive to Nintendo consoles.

 

[azraelck]

While that may be true, Zelda is a very different style that might not appeal to the same gamers. Not to mention it's also going to be exclusive to Nintendo consoles.

Not to mention a dedicated development team of a hundred or more people backed up with a couple hundred million dollars in a budget.

People like what they like. When people like broken cars, telling them of a broken car does not warn them away. It attracts them.

When people like to kill, rape etc, telling them of places where they can kill, rape etc do not warn them away. It attracts them.

So you're now saying that liking Balrum is the same as going around and buying Volkswagens, and then raping and killing people. Is it because you also are only making $2/day, that you feel the need to own German-built cars and rape and murder people? Or is that incidental?

Maybe you should blame Balrum on Trump, Hillary, Bush, and Obama as well. Follow up with an invocation of Godwin too, to round out the argument.

 

[JDR13]

Not to mention a dedicated development team of a hundred or more people backed up with a couple hundred million dollars in a budget..

That's a huge exaggeration, but yeah, it's a AAA game compared to an indie.

 

[Sanglon]

Same answer as usual.

Some people are urged to pour their tastes on everything. They like this, they like that. They have fun with this or that. It tells about them, it does not tell about the product.

But it tells a lot about a player. Don't be surprised you get the question, "what you like?". Because from your comments you create the feeling that you like absolutely nothing.

But ok it's certainly not true, it's just a feeling.

 

[Sanglon]

I finished a full play and despite all the flaws and that only Darkwood and Balrum areas are really well done, it was a fun cool ride, not a great one, but charming and cool.

Combats with a mage was rather interesting and heavily based on not wasting mana and managing turns. Even if the overall combats design isn't fully tuned, it still shows rather uncommon design approaches which is quite interesting.

But the point of this CRPG is freedom, light, enjoy explore to discover little things, and solid character management even if unfair if you don't investigate before start play. A special mention for the multitude of special items, even if some are perhaps pointless, like the ring that make you a ghost, there's really a use case for that?

And for the comparison with Zelda games, firstly they are quite more story guided, secondly the character building is pathetically simple in comparison of Balrum, thirdly they are boring action games when Balrum is cool turn based. So I don't exchange one Balrum against ten Zelda.

 

[azraelck]

That's a huge exaggeration, but yeah, it's a AAA game compared to an indie.

Yeah, more like 20-50, from a quick search. MMO/big FPS games like Destiny tend to go much higher though, given the upfront server costs and higher maintenance and staffing/support requirements. Given Zelda's importance in Nintendo's lineup, I'd estimate on the higher end of the scale before the lower.

Balrum had what, 50+ thousand dollars into it? Likely developed on the side at first (before the KS), like what I'm doing, and assuming that the dev sucks at art like me, bought the art assets. I doubt that Balrun's initial cash outlay would be enough for a single programmer's salary at the average rate for the time between the KS and now.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

To be honest : There are so many Indie games out right now that I'm loosing my overview of it all.

Balrum … what kind of game was it again ?

I have seen Lords Of Zulima in a shop - boxed ! - but could never imagine whether it was a good game ( = fitting to my taste ) or not.
But, seeing recommendations here, I might buy it.

Same with Balrum : I just cannot and don't want to read through *every* news article.
So, I don't even know much about this game - like with so many others right now.

Maybe a monthly gaming news congregation of some sort would be helpful ? Which game came out, what kind of genre is it, etc. … ?

Anyway, I'll be reading about it a bit now ...

 

[azraelck]

Balrum is an isometric cRPG similar in style to Eschalon or the 5,000,000,000 iterations of the Spiderweb Games style. It features a bit of base building, farming, and crafting as optional mechanics and turn based combat.

Xulima has been in my backlog awhile, so long that I don't even remember it at thing point. I really need to work on that. I've still got to get around to playing D:OS!

 

[Sanglon]

I doubt you played Balrum, or you never played any Spiderweb game, they are totally different CRPG.

And for an iso style it could be the 5000 iteration, but the problem is the single character action from behind/over the shoulder get already 5 billion iteration.

 

[ElderGnome]

Well, I see we're still talking about Balrum.

 

[Sanglon]

Now I finished first play and started play some other CRPG I realize that it has an exploration quality quite above many CRPG, despite I admit the exploration design has weird points.

The comparison with Trails in The sky is interesting. Overall the Balrum indie can't be compared to Trails made by a team of pro, almost everything a lot better in Trails with one exception, the exploration. Well there's few other points but they are less significant, like drops and items set, crafting, equipment, secondary activities, character building. But that can be argue for equipment & character building because Trails use a special Orbment system that can compensate the non existent character building (classic old JRPG approach) and the poor items and equipment system.

The problem of exploration is how to fill it. There's the tourism value, combats, NPC, find your paths, tricks and puzzling, secrets and hidden stuff and stuff around the corner, stuff to discover, events, more.

Trails maps have structures, when Balrum very few, but Trails structure are far to have a quality good enough to generate a good paths searching, an example of high level achievement in that matter is DAI and at this quality level this element achieves something. But Trails tries a bit but its pointless, and Balrum doesn't try much at all.

Trails outdoor and dungeons have a very weak filling, it's mostly pointless simple combats thrown and respawed, there's abilities to sneak through many but even this tiny mini game in the game becomes repetitive and tedious, there's few stuff to find but it's very few and very basic, moreover the drops are very basic because the set of items of the game is very basic, there's very few dungeons and most often you need wait the story point allowing enter in them.

Trails towns are better done in that matter but not that much, it's just shops and NPC, but every NPC has his little dialog and main story events can make them evolve. Add to that a little bit of tourism value, and some shops. That is great alas it's nothing more. Stuff to find, almost nothing, secrets and tricks and puzzling almost nothing, dungeons one basic in one town.

Balrum just blow out a game as Trails on that matter, ton of little tricks, ton of stuff to find and overall good drops thanks to a much better set of items, also plenty great drops/stuff to find through plenty very special items with very special abilities, many little hints (visual or sounds) around the paths and to hint mildly hidden stuff, plenty little dungeons with each adding most often two more tricks aor a special combat, plenty special places you want check, and a good amount of NPC to discover in outdoor.

At reverse trails is the typical example of exploration filling done too much with an heavy abuse of little pointless combats spread everywhere. Plenty Balrum tricks could be too simple it's still allow build a much better exploration than in many CRPG. Also that design idea of many little items doing something very special, is a great idea I hadn't see before or I forgot. Many CRPG should borrow this design idea.

Don't be wrong, Trails is still a great JRPG, and I agree indie Balrum can't pretend compete.

 

[azraelck]

I doubt you played Balrum, or you never played any Spiderweb game, they are totally different CRPG.

And for an iso style it could be the 5000 iteration, but the problem is the single character action from behind/over the shoulder get already 5 billion iteration.

I have played several of the Geneforge and Avernum titles, as well as Avernum when it was called Exile. I also played Avadon: The Black Fortress. And Balrum and Eschalon. They all share striking similarities in gameplay, even if the underlying mechanics change and Balrum adds features the others don't have. The end result is a game which scratches that isometric itch quite well, but isn't so different as you claim. Trying to say Balrum isn't similar to those games is like saying the original Bard's Tale trilogy wasn't similar to Wizardry. Different, but all in all very similar titles.

Yes it's a different CRPG, no it is not new and unique. Differences in execution is not a different genre entirely. Balrum settles in among the aforementioned Spiderweb titles and Eschalon as a familiar and welcome addition. I would rate it a buy just based on that.