BioWare - How Do I Become A Writer #1

[skavenhorde]

I'm not nearly as well versed in this topic as many of you, but there was a game done already that was written by a well known author and the story wasn't that linear. It had chapters in it and definate points where you had to go but within that chapter you could go almost anywhere you wanted and do tons of side quests. Plus it was very well written.

I'm talking about Betrayal at Krondor with Feist's writing in it. He even did a novel that went along with the game and that was good as well, just like what Dgaidar is doing. By the way, I'll be picking up the book as well. Someone mentioned in another thread about how they liked it when the game linked to other materials outside the game. I like that as well. Gives the game something extra, imo.

Some people might think that BAK was still very linear since you HAD to go certain places and HAD to do certain things, but within those chapters there was a lot of stuff you didn't have to do and you had to find out for yourself.

Anyways, just wanted to throw that one out for you guys. BAK was and is one of my favorites. It is too bad that Feist and the developers had such a hard time (from what I heard around the grapevine) that Feist pretty much will not do another one without tons of money.

 

[Dgaider]

As such I'd have thought a games company could have people internally involved in the whole project with the appropriate skill set to manage the conversion into gameplay, but that isn't the same skill set as being able to come up with great ideas, and judging by the industry output very, very few people have both skill sets. Which is why collaboration with people with great ideas but lacking the skill set would get the best of both worlds IMO. Someone with the teachable practical skills of game design could, I'd have thought, take most strong underlying ideas and convert them.

Maybe. I don't know how much interest there would be in hiring (even on a freelance basis) pure "idea" people. Everyone thinks they have great ideas, just like everyone thinks they can write. You can also have what you think is a great idea that, once implemented, just doesn't work very well. Some of the limitations that I mentioned before -- the technology and resource ones in particular -- can sometimes work against even the most sparkling idea that comes down the pipe. If a project team is implementing bland ideas to start with, however, that's a weakness of the team in question and the leadership behind it.

I also think that many people who are discussing the "writing" of a particular game are also confusing that with the vision behind the project. Just like with films, the people determining the vision aren't always creative types themselves. In fact, I'd say that's quite often the case. Does this make their ideas bad? That depends, I suppose, but all I'm saying is that the people responsible for the writing are not always the same people responsible for the vision. It'd be nice if writing and design were always the most important consideration when putting a game together (from my perspective, anyhow ) but that simply isn't always the case. Considering that story is viewed as an impediment in some circles, we're often struggling to make ourselves heard. That's the nature of such a collaborative process, however, and I think at times it may serve as much of a barrier to what you're talking about as the need for the skills themselves.

Take my comments with a grain of salt, as well. I have not worked in all corners of the industry, my experience is solely in one tiny corner of it.

I agree some ideas are just too inappropriate for gameplay to work though, and quite possibly in practice that's all writers ever give you and you've already tried it all and know it backwards, I defer to your industry judgement but am surprised if that's the case with all writers.

Mmm no, I wouldn't say it's always the case. Like I said, some people just take to the conversion quite naturally. I suspect it depends a lot on their familiarity with gaming in general.

Out of interest, do you ever go on www.jeffvandermeer.com? His blog seems to be very popular with a lot of minor and aspiring writers in the new weird / fantasy / sci fi type genres, I'd imagine your series of articles would be of great interest to him and his readers. They talk a lot about writing and discussion of a different kind of writing most career writers tend to be very bad at and truly misunderstand would probably be well received. And might flush out a few writers who'd have a go at writing for a game designer audience.

Never been there, but I'll check it out. Thanks.

 

[Caddy]

Well, games don't need story. They didn't need it when games first started to appear. This is something that was tacked on later, when productions got larger. Apparently, some people think this thing called "gameplay" is a more important factor in games.

I'm going to have to partially disagree with that. Especially when gaming on a PC, where gaming is more personal, rather than sitting on the couch with buddies on a console.
Games had story early on, (Zork? KQ?) but with a lot of the early games, you WERE the story. It was a sense of immersion. Just because those game seem simplistic now, doesn't mean they were. Games were in their infancy, and unfortunately now, because games and peoples tastes have evolved, most people seem to expect much more from a game.
While some games are great mindless fun, some are great to just shut out the world around you for a bit and get wrapped up in the story (or become the story). Those old adventure games did that for me, I don't know how others feel.

 

[Cabel Blacke]

And that's where I disagree with you. It's not something anyone with a "competent prose style" can do. That would be like saying anyone could write a decent screenplay or a novel and that the particulars of that medium are just minor obstacles that be overcome with a strong underlying idea. No way is that true.

Yep, until you've actually tried to do it (and I have with fairly modest if unsuccessful results), writing game content (including dialogue, quests, area/item descriptions) takes practice and is a learned skill. Talent-wise, it requires someone who is part left-brain and right-brain, as you have to be extremely creative AND have a solid understanding of game systems, quest structure, tying together critical path quests and non-linear subquests in a neat package. etc... etc... It sounds reasonably simple for someone familiar with those things to start with (like your typical D&D gamemaster), but for a writer off the street, it is akin to speaking in tongues.

 

[Benedict]

Maybe. I don't know how much interest there would be in hiring (even on a freelance basis) pure "idea" people. Everyone thinks they have great ideas, just like everyone thinks they can write. You can also have what you think is a great idea that, once implemented, just doesn't work very well. Some of the limitations that I mentioned before -- the technology and resource ones in particular -- can sometimes work against even the most sparkling idea that comes down the pipe. If a project team is implementing bland ideas to start with, however, that's a weakness of the team in question and the leadership behind it.

I certainly get the impression that there isn't that much interest, at least while there's just such a huge comprehension gap. It'd be interesting to see it almost done on a competition basis to start with, find some writers forums & announce a competition to write a side quest & storyline type thing in a particular setting. Much easier to walk away from that if all you get is a flood of crap, and if you get a few good ones it'd be easier to announce the results with a detailed explanation of why they're the best for what you're looking for without having to respond individually to writers (with a chance of some people learning for the next competition, or even saying that you welcome further submissions on a freelance basis).

Overall I guess I'm thinking more of writers coming up with ideas & atmosphere & turns of phrase and characters that can be lifted and adapted. As you say - if a story revolves around the protagonist acting or reacting a certain way it can be tricky. But if the protagonist in the story becomes an NPC in the game that the game's protagonist interacts with or against or encounters then the fact that the story's protagonist acts in a particular way isn't an issue.

To me almost all side quests feel like that, the character is the magical element of dynamism which triggers all the previously static people into resolution of their stories, but they're always still their stories which the game's protagonist briefly interacts with.

It'd be nice if writing and design were always the most important consideration when putting a game together (from my perspective, anyhow ) but that simply isn't always the case. Considering that story is viewed as an impediment in some circles, we're often struggling to make ourselves heard. That's the nature of such a collaborative process, however, and I think at times it may serve as much of a barrier to what you're talking about as the need for the skills themselves.

How depressing! Well, I'm certainly rooting for your corner along with I'd imagine lots of others at the watch, I hope the industry comes to value what you and your colleagues can offer as much as it should because I think the games will be far better for it.

Take my comments with a grain of salt, as well. I have not worked in all corners of the industry, my experience is solely in one tiny corner of it.

Heck, I've not worked in the industry at all so its fascinating to hear an inside perspective, thank you for taking the time to talk on here And apologies if anything I've said has sounded like I think I know what I'm talking about better than you, I do recognise that you're far closer to it and far better informed than me, I'm only putting out my thoughts and am grateful to have them analysed by someone with actual knowledge & experience.

I've probably coming more from the writing side perspective, my brother's had a couple of books published which would just not translate to a computer game at all in spite of the superficially similar settings so I can totally appreciate that some writing is just not suitable at all! But then I also spent formative years with him gamesmastering P&P games (and we've both played CRPGs since the BBC micro) so I know he can write very well in a more suitable format for CRPGs, which I'm probably misguidedly generalising into assuming that all fantasy writers could switch formats.

Never been there, but I'll check it out. Thanks.

It's a good blog, he also does an awful lot of anthology compilation & championing of up and coming & undiscovered writers so if you did want to tap into a large pool of good but underpaid fantasy / sci-fi / new weird writers to see if there's any way of working together he'd be your man Also seems to have a lot of contacts for some weird art assets.