Cave of Sorrows - Live on Kickstarter

Well, Ripper you have no idea what you are talking about. we have never stolen anyones work, we told you last year it was an honest mistake we baught a bundle from humble bundle and it had images in it that we used to show off things. that got straightened out long ago. you have been on us for no reason for a long time. and we are not ellis studios, me and jamie have worked together and we still do. Jamie Ellis owns Ellis Studios. And for everyones info Cave of Sorrows is not made with any tpye of rpg maker engine! this game has been in development for way over a year we have just had a rough time with coding it, we got a new coder and he is awesome. and we do need funds for voice- overs. you will see when the demo is out it is a very nice and flawless game. the people who have played it think its the next best Baldur's Gate and I'm not just saying that either! Anyways I'm done defending this nonsense there is no point in it. You just keep on making up lies and stirring a fire. One thing I've noticed about you Ripper is that you never have anything nice to say about anything, no matter what it is. you are very sarcastic and negative about everything. look at all your posts show me when you we're ever nice or kind to anyone?

Cave of Sorrows is not a respin of any of our other games! Are you blind can you not see the UI can you not see the new battle engine? hahah your insane

As someone who has not played your games, I can only say the following, having been interested from the start as a fan of d&d and wizardry type games:

*The graphics used for your characters and monsters are from Pioneer Valley games, and are sold as dlcs to the RPGmaker engine. I know, I own them as well. I'm sure they can be used in other engines as well.

*Many of your older games had UIs which looked almost identical to the rpgmaker interface. I'll agree that this newer one looks different.

*Rpgmaker can be tweeked to use many combat systems. There is not just one.

*New U.I. and new battle system are not enough to make a new game. Content is. I trust CRPGNut when he says your games feel the same, since he tested multiple ones.

*When you came on here as Dragongamedesigns, Ripper accused you of being affiliated with Ellis Studios, which you at that point denied. Wouldn't it have been better at that point then clarifying things rather than flat out denying a connection?

*Those who have played your games (Fluent and RPGnut) have one major complaint, and that is how unpolished your games are. Its a real pain playtesting games. I've done it with everything I've tried to make. Its much more fun designing things. Its also something hard for one person to do. It would be much better with a beta tester. Ellis Studios and Dragongame designs have announced six games in the span of maybe a year and a half. That gives the impression that you don't spend the time necessary to produce a super product.

*All this and the fact that you only sell your games through your own websites have turned me from very interested to very sceptical, and I think that's a shame. I don't know you, how you develop games, or the motivations behind how you've chosen to market your games. You seem to have a passion for rpgs. Clearly if you wanted to make money only you'd make crappy action games. On the other hand, the strategy you have chosen to market your products hasn't done you any favors
 
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The demo is now available to all the backers!

We have decided to set the records straight for all of our backers. that is why we have released the demo for all the backers to try it out and see for there selves.
Thank You
 
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I tell you though never knew how expensive voice-overs can be, He is doing a great job though.

I can imagine that hire Brad Pitt for dwarf king and Angelina Jolie for dwarven queen must be extremely expensive if not impossible. :biggrin:
 
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So dragongamedesigns, why are the spell icons the same ones from Diablo 3? If they aren't stolen then what is the story behind that?
 
What is sad is that the lady has some legitimate coding skills. If they would stop churning regurgitated crap and instead focus on delivering one solid 60 hour game that can be played from the beginning to the end, they would have had success.

Instead, they keep pushing out game that have about one town and one dungeon finished and then move to the next game. Every game is 95% repetition of all the games that came before it.

'nut, we seriously need more insight into this. I'm trying to figure this madness out. :D

How many of the games have you personally played, and for how long? Are they able to be finished?

As I said, I played two of their games for a total of a few hours and saw a need for polishing as well as repeating content. There are also promising aspects, though. But if this is really a scam of some sort, it seems like a really, really bad one. Unbelievable, even. That's why I'm so confused about it. o_O

And what's up with Mines of Grimvale? Is it playable? I dunno, man. I think I will check out the demo for Cave of Sorrows (which the developer provided me) for a few and just tell everyone to proceed at their own risk…
 
Dude, the demo is actually good. It is basically D&D 3.5 with a ton of depth. Feats, backgrounds, races with racial traits, skills, spells, the whole nine. The art style looks pretty dang nice, isometric-style almost. If this is a functioning game, wow…It would have a ton of potential.

I am even more confused now.
 
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Good demo and asset stealing is 2 different thing - if they are really passionate about developing a game and want others to play their game, I think explanation is in order. Just come out clean, stop ignoring and answering with "no assets are stolen". Yes, they are stolen, please explain why you used World of Warcraft and Diablo 3 icons in your game - referring to screenshot of your game posted on Kickstarter page.
 
Yeah, it's not really confusing. As crpgnut said, they seem to have the knowhow to put a game together. But then they leave each rehash in an unfinished state, release the next spin two months later, run a Kickstarter, rinse and repeat.

And, of course, they rip off assets, use different identities, and lie through their teeth to cover themselves. I think we all agree, that if they cut the crap, they could probably put a decent game together if they invested a sensible amount of time in it. Not that I would touch it with a ten foot pole given how they've behaved.
 
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The reason it's confusing to me is because if that is true and they are running a scam, it seems like a really bad scam. But hey, I don't know much about that sort of thing, so what do I know? :S

I am going to personally look into it more and see what else I can find.
 
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I am looking into it. Private Eye Fluent is on the case, and I shall report my findings in time. :D
 
The latest update says the icons in the demo and in the screenshots are placeholders. That is the same thing they told me in a correspondence with them. They have said that the demo will be updated with their art and that the final version will have their own art assets.
 
Accusations aside, I'm just wondering what the selling point of this game would be? I mean, whether or not it was made in RPGmaker, something similar (or a custom engine that just happens to look a lot like an RPGmaker game)... That's not to say it looks bad for an indie game at all, it's decent enough, but everything I see in the trailer and from perusing the description is very generic fantasy RPG. I'd try the demo.. but apparently it's only available after you back the Kickstarter? I just don't know why anyone would consider throwing money at this KS when there's a slew of similar games already available (including many from the developer of CoS for that matter).
 
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Accusations aside, I'm just wondering what the selling point of this game would be? I mean, whether or not it was made in RPGmaker, something similar (or a custom engine that just happens to look a lot like an RPGmaker game)… That's not to say it looks bad for an indie game at all, it's decent enough, but everything I see in the trailer and from perusing the description is very generic fantasy RPG. I'd try the demo.. but apparently it's only available after you back the Kickstarter? I just don't know why anyone would consider throwing money at this KS when there's a slew of similar games already available (including many from the developer of CoS for that matter).

Well, let me give you some initial impressions and then I'll explain why I support it (based on the game itself.)

It uses open-source D&D, with all the extensive feats, spells, skills, stats, races with racial bonuses, backgrounds and classes that you would expect. There are a lot of character building options to say the least, and the game has implemented a bunch of the classic D&D combat things, like Tumbling, Attacks of Opportunity and so on. The game features an "almost isometric" looking art style that is quite decent and pleasant to look at, and the combat is turn-based "on the spot" combat. So, those things combined make it something I am very interested in. There aren't really a lot of old-school D&D-style RPGs out there, so when developers make something like this I very much welcome it.
 
Well, let me give you some initial impressions and then I'll explain why I support it (based on the game itself.)

It uses open-source D&D, with all the extensive feats, spells, skills, stats, races with racial bonuses, backgrounds and classes that you would expect. There are a lot of character building options to say the least, and the game has implemented a bunch of the classic D&D combat things, like Tumbling, Attacks of Opportunity and so on. The game features an "almost isometric" looking art style that is quite decent and pleasant to look at, and the combat is turn-based "on the spot" combat. So, those things combined make it something I am very interested in. There aren't really a lot of old-school D&D-style RPGs out there, so when developers make something like this I very much welcome it.

OK D&D (3.5?) rules are pretty cool. But is it entirely a combat focuses game or is there some good dialogue / interesting quests? Even when it's good, combat focused RPGs can usually only hold my attention for so long.. IIRC they were saying something about 100+ hours… I'm envisioning lots of grinding / trash encounters… Especially considering the devs are going by the alias "Grinding game studios" on the Codex for some reason.
 
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Dunno yet, I haven't played enough of it to see as I was busy today. Going to jump in tonight and check it out more.

Edit - Playing now. Just had a cute little dialogue with a reptile dude. Told him that I saw him somewhere before, he replies, "You no see me before. Maybe you fight goblin get hit in head?" :D

Entered a cave and now fighting a spider. It has many D&D options you can use in combat. Five Foot Step, Coup de Grace, Single Attack, Charge, Full Attack, Fight Defensively, etc. etc. The promise of quite a bit of interesting loot, as I found an enchanted ring, some supplies and a few merchants who sell various things. Lots of armor/weapon/item slots to equip as you would expect. Grabbed a side quest to get back a stolen item from goblins (from the same reptile dude, he had multiple topics to chat about.)

It needs more polish obviously but so far it's pretty decent. I am going to suggest some things to the developers now on how they can improve it. I'd suggest checking out the demo if you're into D&D turn-based combat and seeing for yourself what it's like.

Oh, and there's also extensive tooltips for every action and item. Really nicely done, actually.
 
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But don't you need to back to play the demo? (Yes I realize I could probably back to get the DL link and then immediately cancel my pledge but I prefer not to bother with that)..

Anyway, talk of them makes me really long for a proper turn-based, single-player D&D CRPG. It's been way too long. Why do we now only get crap like Sword Coast legends and NW MMO? I'd kill for a modern day Gold Box Game. Or say ToEE but with proper funding so the developer could actually finish it. I feel like that sort of thing should have a decent sized audience.
 
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I agree, I'd love to see another proper D&D CRPG. I'm currently playing a fun D&D RPG that a lot of people may have missed, but I am sworn to secrecy on what game that is. At least until I upload the first video on my YouTube channel. :biggrin:

You may think I'm nuts but this Cave of Sorrows game so far is a bit reminiscent of ToEE, at least in the combat and all the options you can use. I don't see much in the way of "trash mobs" yet. The first cave had one Cave Spider and then an Ogre, which is a really tough encounter. Another cave I found had 2 Cave Spiders in an encounter which was quite tough as well, and then another path with a bunch of Zombies that I didn't even care to tackle since it looked as though I'd get rocked. It kind of feels like a Spiderweb Software game from a visual perspective, and funny enough it may even have higher production values in the graphics department than Jeff's games. :D

There are some weird issues that are present in their other games as well, such as the text being a bit hard to read in the character sheet (black text on dark brown background, needs work), and a few other things I've mentioned to the devs. I am impressed by the tooltips, both in and out of combat. They are slick, give a bunch of information and look good visually. The inventory is pretty nice, too, and the loot looks promising in that D&D style. I didn't notice placeholder icons that were familiar but I wasn't paying much attention to that. Character portraits are alright, I think they are RPG Maker portraits and what not (could be wrong). The voice acting that is in the game is great, although it may play a bit too frequently for my taste (I also mentioned this to the devs.)

Otherwise it seems like a competent turn-based RPG so far. If it offers 100 hours of challenging combat and meaningful character progression, I'm in.
 
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