Drakensang Online - Interview, "Too few people bought Drakensang"

[Elwro]

Well, you can get the Player's Handbook in English which comes with the Polish CE of RoT

(Is some sort of a DM guide required, too?)

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Well, there is a kind of guide, but it's not really required.

You can do without, I think. But I mast say that I really can't be sure, because I've never been a game master.

(DM = "dungeon master" ? Or what ?)

 

[Elwro]

Yeah, I used the "DM" abbreviation since it was the standard for AD&D editions to have a Player's Handbook and a Dungeon Master's Guide.

I wonder how much info is in the Handbook; looks like a small leaflet in the picture. I wouldn't be surprised if they're planning to release TDE in Polish and this would be some sort of a promo to get more people interested before the translations are done.

 

[Dwagginz]

This is actually one of the major problems I see myself.

And - I think you can still get the English-language rule set book of the 4th edition somewhere … both at the RPC and the "Spiel International" fair here in Germany this book can sometimes be seen.
*snip*

I've seen three or four on DriveThruRPG.com (like this, and one or two on Amazon.co.uk (the selection is smaller than Amazon.com), but the brand name just isn't out there. We have a fraction of the books that the German markets have, and there's no advertising or marketing of the series beyond the appalling marketing for the CRPGs.

Even back with the first three CRPGs, they weren't marketed as The Dark Eye (I believe), and were named Realms of Arkania. I think the German title is something like the Nordslandliedlungen or something But even then I'm sure they were marketed as Das Schwarze Auge (To give it its correct name).

There's no reason that I can see as to why they (Chromatix, right?) aren't marketing TDE in English-speaking markets. If they say it's a lower-magic, more medieval, more complex game to D&D 4e, they've got the attention of a lot of D&D players. I much prefer the setting of TDE to D&D, and all I've seen is the odd book cover and Drakensang (Well, come on, you can't see much in RoA ).

TDE is, as far as I can see, thematically more in touch with older games and settings like early D&D, The Bard's Tale and so forth. Should make a nice change with all this Warhammer and Forgotten Realms nonsense!

 

[skavenhorde]

TDE is, as far as I can see, thematically more in touch with older games and settings like early D&D, The Bard's Tale and so forth. Should make a nice change with all this Warhammer and Forgotten Realms nonsense!

Warhammer nonsense? Where are you playing these Warhammer rpg computer games? I have almost every single Warhammer computer game ever made excluding a few really old titles like Heroquest plus a ton of other tabletop/board games based in the Warhammer universe and none of them are rpgs. Warhammer games are a strategy wargame first and foremost. There are roleplaying aspects to many of their games, but no one in their right mind would compare them to rpgs like TDE.

It's just recently that they've been making more Warhammer computer games. For years I would be lucky if they released one every couple of years or so. They do have that horrible game Warhammer online, but that has more in common with WoW than any real rpg. God I hate that game.

The FIRST roleplaying game that I've heard of being made in the Warhammer universe (and I've looked for years) is Warhammer 40k: Space Marine. They're billing it as an action RPG so I'm expecting a Diablo type game.

There is an odd little P&P Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game, but I never knew anyone who actually played that and you never see any computer game made from those rules.

As for Forgotten Realms, I couldn't agree more. I would love to see a different setting. Any setting other than The Sword Coast would be a nice change of pace. Perhaps in the Darksun universe this time around.

 

[Dwagginz]

I was referring to Warhammer as a setting and universe, skavenhorde, although I was half-referring to Warhammer Online, the books and the P&P game

 

[skavenhorde]

I thought you did, but how can you compare Warhammer to any rpg game or to the popularity of Forgotten Realms? It's not even close to being that popular. Even the P&P is hardly ever mentioned or played. I don't even know if they're still printing it anymore. I could be wrong. I don't follow that portion of Games Workshop at all.

The setting for computer games are finally getting followers, but they are a different crowd than rpgers. I just thought it odd that you would lump a setting that was an underdog for years and years in with Forgotten Realms.

The books I can't say anything about them since I never read any(I thought it would be all killing and blood), but a fellow rpgwatcher told me that the ones he's read are pretty good.

Anyways, I want to live where you're at where there are tons of Warhammer products available. I have to travel to the south end of Taiwan to even find one Warhammer shop.

 

[Dwagginz]

I live in England, which is where Games Workshop is from To me, Warhammer's just as well known and as popular, if not more so, than D&D.

Either way, I'm not comparing it to Drakensang (and other RPGs) based on whether it's a cRPG or not. I'm comparing the setting of Warhammer to that of D&D and TDE. There's plenty of official Warhammer art and "visual creations" (models, games etc) that give you a good idea of what Warhammer's setting is like. It's dark, gritty and quite "mature" compared to the seemingly more light-hearted setting for TDE.

 

[Elwro]

In Poland, almost everyone interested in RPGs in the 90s played Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay; it was the first foreign system that got translated and was heavily promoted. (I still have fond memories of WFRP sessions, even though the mechanics bordered on idiocy sometimes.) Hell, now I remember I GM'd the whole Enemy Within campaign DnD only took off later on here.

 

[skavenhorde]

Unfortunately, it wasn't like that in California. The tabletop game was quite popular, but it still had competition from other boardgames, but not so much from other type of miniature wargames. I remember my friend playing Talisman and Car Wars forever. He didn't even want to look at any other game.

Either way, now that you said your from England I kinda get why you would be tired of that universe, but give us Americans (and some Asian friends of mine) a chance to get sick of the setting too

@Elwro I had no idea that WFRPG was popular anywhere. I heard of a few campaigns being run, but none of my friends were that interested in it. Well, I'm glad it was at least popular somewhere. Still I would of preferred the miniature game over a traditional P&P. What can I say I like painting my own army. Lately though it's become too much of a pain. You have to cut each arm, leg, head, torso and legs out of the plastic set. Then attatch them together. Great for customization, but a pain in the butt.

Anyways, sorry about the derail and thanks for the info on Warhammer in England and Poland. I know it's popular in England because I read once that Warhammer Fantasy Battle is more popular in Europe(though I didn't realize just how much in demand it is. I figured it was like in the US, a niche product that a few hobbiest played) and them yanks prefer Warhammer 40k. Personally I love the formations and moral of WFB. W40k is ok, but it's a little too much like Hitler has become the Emporer and the Space Marines go around cleansing the galaxy. Plus, there are no freaking formations and they killed my skaven (YOU BASTARD).

I promise this was the last post of my ramblings of Warhammer Past and Present. Thanks again for the info, it's quite interesting since I'm thinking about visiting England and Scotland next summer. I know where my first stop will be I hope their prices are a little cheaper than what I'm paying now.

 

[Dwagginz]

It likely isn't. Games Workshop stuff is ridiculously expensive over here.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

This is imho quite interesting : TDE books (adventures, mostly) are sold out much, much faster than predicted.

This blog describes, why : TDE things are selling much better now …

http://blog.ulisses-spiele.de/2010/...-mythos-um-auflagengrosen-und-verkaufszahlen/

Google translation of that blog :

Edit : A few notes : Correct "self-style" by "Of own mercy", which would be the literal translation. It's of a group trying to establish themselves as a factor of power within a disturbed region. So, "Self-Style" is a correct translation in its own way - to describe what this adventure is about - only that it doesn't hold the "style" of TDE titles.

And "Castle Stone Drag" is simply nonsense. "Castle Dragenstein" is the title of the castle itself.

One or two players will have noticed that some DSA adventures are sold out in no time and no longer is. This fact is also not escaped us, we want to apologize to all interested parties who have recently looked into the tube, and explain how it came about.

The truth is that many are sold out DSA adventure. Many of them have been sold out even in a very short time. It is also true that this is natural for fans who do not already have this adventure is not good, especially when these adventures can then only have to buy at ridiculously high prices on Ebay.

Why did it happen so?

do has taken over as Ulisses license for DSA, we have looked at the old circulation figures, sales figures and the remaining stocks very closely to determine in what conditions we print adventures in the future.
It was our intention that an adventure for a few years should be available. Not forever, but not only for eight months. Of course, we have not used any average figures, but a consideration in the amount of pressure requirements such as entry-points, campaign, Metaplot considered.

This edition sizes have until a few months, works quite well (with a few exceptions such as "self-styled" or "Black Oak").

Suddenly there is now such that new adventure and even new versions of classics like "Dust & Stars" are already sold out after a relatively short time. Is the fact that we have reduced the requirements again? Is it because we deliberately do so to sell the new products better?

No - it does not. namely, that DSA will sell for some time again significantly better than they did a few years ago was the case - the reason for this is a very enjoyable.

This is not just for the adventure but also for the rule, regional and source volumes. Only we have reprinted these books has always been (with a few exceptions), but in adventures, we thought that this is probably not necessary or economically viable.

But now we are running out in record time, the adventure, and this is of course the time when we look at the circulation figures again and draw conclusions had to: In the future, we are generally the circulation figures of DSA publications increased in order to ensure a longer continuous delivery !

What, in principle, only one means - DSA currently runs as good than it has been years, and the various prophecies of doom or fears on the subject are fortunately wrong.

Oh yes - before I forget - we are reprinting some of the sold-out adventure, so no one is forced to get them for high prices on Ebay. These include first of all include:

Thunder & Storm
Pilgrim paths
By orcs and humans
The refuge
The curse of castle stone drag
Dust and stars
Self-styled
In the shadow Simyalas

These adventures are not all available the day after his return, but over the next few months and again after appearing in the role-playing game shops.

We will also offer to our PDFs from the end of the year to expand. We improve the very reasonable for a PDF-shop necessary software and infrastructure - once that is done, there will be more DSA regulations, source books and adventures to be offered in digital form.

This is highly interesting - because it might mean that Radon Labs died an untimely death. Had they been able to keep on, they might have been riding this wave one day.

 

[Dwagginz]

What actually happened to Radon Labs? Did they just lose a lot of money and were then rescued by Bigpoint?

I have a feeling some of the blame lies with dtp. Boo, dtp.

 

[Fenris]

As far as I understand the rumors, Radon is gone and Bigpoint has only hired some of the employes and bought the name.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Radon Labs had financial difficulties, which they hoped could be solved by the sales of Drakensang 2.

But Drakensang 2 didn't sell at all than predicted, and dtp decided not to fund them another Drakensang 3 game.

Thus, without any further money, Radon Labs had to file insolvency (German laws are very strict regarding that), which left them tumbling.

Big Point bought them - thus helping them out of that financial trouble. But Radon Labs as we know it is actually gone now.

Ex - Radon Labs is now called "Bigpoint Berlin".

But note that Bigpoint bought not everything of Radon Labs. A few employees didn't get get to Bigpoint - we don't know if they did it out of free will or simply because Bigpoint didn't want to buy all of them.

The lead designer (or at least one of them, as far as I understood it) was one of those who didn't go to Bigpoint.

Don't know who's getting the proceedings from the sales of all Drakensang games now - but I suspect/assume that since Bigpoint bought them, they get this money now.

There'll be a Drakensang Online without any TDE in it, due to lack of a license.
It will be an action game, as far as we know (and we know very little about it).

Note : The last game Radon Labs published before they had to file insolvency is the old school TBS game of "Future Wars". More on it here : http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10428 It is said to be highly moddable.

 

[Ergonpandilus]

But Drakensang 2 didn't sell at all than predicted, and dtp decided not to fund them another Drakensang 3 game.

Making game available for everyone besides Jerries would have helped with the sales.

 

[Dwagginz]

So, basically, Radon Labs had problems that dtp didn't help solve at all? Excellent work, dtp.

But thanks for that, Alrik. I had no idea that happened, as I thought Radon Labs were simply just bought out.

 

[Gorath]

It's not that easy. DraSa: River of Time didn't sell in Germany. Undeservedly so. Talks between dtp & Radon Labs about a 3rd DraSa didn't come to a positive conclusion. You can't realistically expect a publisher (or the fund they're cooperating with) to allocate a serious 7-digit budget to a project if they don't think it's economically feasible. That's normal business. RL should have foreseen the problems. Now they were unable to secure a follow-up project. It's confirmed they pitched for the Sacred 3 contract, but didn't get the job.
A studio with 100 people can't exist without at least one big project. So they shrunk, worked on the add-on and tried to find an investor.
It seems Bigpoint didn't buy RL. I think they bought some IP and tech, and took over 30-something people (already increased to a couple more). RL as a company was closed though.
The timing certainly didn't help. Before the economic crisis, or rather immediately after the DraSa release, it's not unlikely they could have made an exit from a position of strength.

All independent studios have this sword of Damokles above their heads. One flopped game or missed follow-up project can kill the studio.

 

[Dwagginz]

But you can argue that dtp, as the publisher, didn't help the cause at all. In the UK, as an example, they did absolutely no marketing for Drakensang. It had no presence in online stores (It was there, but it was something you could glaze over without noticing), and there was no focus on it.

TRoT was at GamesCom and E3 (dtp booth), and no news site really gave it a glance or a mention. I think I actually saw more information about 1C releases than I did anything by dtp.

I do think it's a bad time for gaming, what with the economy and so forth, but I don't think it's that bad. Games are selling in bigger and bigger quantities, and there's an increasing demand (As far as I can tell) for games like Drakensang. I've often seen it mentioned on the BioWare boards when people are asking for games like Dragon Age, and it's rarely something negative.

dtp are the publisher, and they're the ones responsible for getting it into other territories. So far it's had Italian, Spanish, German and I believe Polish releases. They're missing out on the biggest one - English! We've said a few times on the dtp board that if nothing else, they should put it up on Steam and/or similar platforms just to try to recoup some money from it. They have a product they want to sell, they have a product we want to buy. Sitting on it like they are is not making the situation any better.

I think.

 

[DArtagnan]

Frankly, I can't see a game like Drakensang truly succeed with a team of 100 people.

The market just isn't big enough. Maybe it didn't take that long to create, but I saw nothing in the game to indicate the team had been that big.

Seems like way too many people for a project like that.