ES4: Oblivion - Retrospective @ The Koalition

[Zloth]

I remember killing some trolls in Oblivion. It was in that funky quest where you actually enter a painting and all the graphics looked like they were painted. Great stuff. Unfortunately, I guess I didn't take down all the trolls.

 

[Dasale]

I give Oblivion about a C, or maybe a B on my own personal scale. But there hasn't been any other RPG I liked better in the last 10 years. It doesn't make me very happy to say that, but there it is.

A decade? So the 00's? Let see, The Witcher, Gothic 2 + NOTR, Mask of the Betrayer, DAO, Drakensang, Baldur's Gate 2, Divine Divinity 1, Avernum 1, Eschalon: Book I, Morrowind, Avernum 5, Kotor (even if I played only a little part of it).
For me many are a lot better than Oblivion and all are better.

 

[Dasale]

I remember killing some trolls in Oblivion. It was in that funky quest where you actually enter a painting and all the graphics looked like they were painted. Great stuff. Unfortunately, I guess I didn't take down all the trolls.

There's one thing I'll not remove to Oblivion trophy, plenty quests had a very good story writing and some excellent. Alas those story was in parallel to the real quests, because most had a very poor gameplay implementation mostly glued to a follow the cursor because of one of the worst hint design I ever saw in a non pure action CRPG.

That, no mod will ever fix it because it's a huge work never done that should have been done at the base but instead quantity have been achieved.

 

[Relayer]

I think people mostly comment on how much better it could be not on how bad it was .

Interesting comment. I think it may be because Morrowind even with it's faults was something special and most of us were looking for an IMPROVED Morrowind and instead got 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

There were just so many little things Bethesda did that ruined the game for me.

Bottom line for me was it was too watered down and too "consolized".

I don't mind it as an action/adventure with light RPG elements. Just don't call it an RPG. Though I think it reminds me most of GTA in a way: lots of little things to do, most of them meaningless but good for some light fun.

 

[TheMadGamer]

I liked Oblivion. But I really disliked the the level scaling aspect of it - that really removed any sense of character progression. But the sandbox feel of the game and the quests were all pretty good.

 

[Daroou]

anyone under 15 is too young to matter and anyone over 25 is too old to matter.

Just shut up will you please? Sure many or most games today are targetted for that age group but I don't care. It's the way you say it, so all high and mighty and narcissistic.

 

[Foss]

There's one thing I'll not remove to Oblivion trophy, plenty quests had a very good story writing and some excellent. Alas those story was in parallel to the real quests, because most had a very poor gameplay implementation mostly glued to a follow the cursor because of one of the worst hint design I ever saw in a non pure action CRPG.

That, no mod will ever fix it because it's a huge work never done that should have been done at the base but instead quantity have been achieved.

Thats my biggest issue with Oblivion aswell, though I enjoyed the game, the quest updates ruined so many well designed quests for me.
When I am told what to do at every turn, I don't feel the same reward and achievement for completing a quest. At the same time, I think its bad design for an RPG to communicate direcrtly with the player instead of your chr.

 

[JDR13]

Thats my biggest issue with Oblivion aswell, though I enjoyed the game, the quest updates ruined so many well designed quests for me.
When I am told what to do at every turn, I don't feel the same reward and achievement for completing a quest. At the same time, I think its bad design for an RPG to communicate direcrtly with the player instead of your chr.

Is there really no mod that changes that?

 

[tolknaz]

Sure, there are plenty of mods that remove quest markers. That however does not even begin to address the real problem. The quests are designed in a way that they rely on the markers as you get basically no descriptions or notes where to go other than a stupid marker. So, just removing the quest markers is a crappy solution to a silly problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

 

[Dasale]

Sure, there are plenty of mods that remove quest markers. That however does not even begin to address the real problem. The quests are designed in a way that they rely on the markers as you get basically no descriptions or notes where to go other than a stupid marker. So, just removing the quest markers is a crappy solution to a silly problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

There's few quests with few fair hints but it's a little minority so you end use constantly the "follow the cursor" crap until you replay the game. So it's even more frustrating when you realize that. …At least the quest you are currently doing had some good or even fair hints… too late the cursor crap spoiled all.

The second crap quite similar is the "show the clickable items", and this time it's DAO I want quote (a game I like unlike Oblivion), for a large number of click-able items you have the hints or the logic letting you guess right, but for many and some are very important, you have no serious option but hit the key to almost constantly "show the clickable items". The result is that the exploration gameplay is spoiled and destroyed quite a lot. This gameplay destruction is in fact rather similar to effects of the "follow the cursor" crap.

 

[JDR13]

The second crap quite similar is the "show the clickable items", and this time it's DAO I want quote (a game I like unlike Oblivion), for a large number of click-able items you have the hints or the logic letting you guess right, but for many and some are very important, you have no serious option but hit the key to almost constantly "show the clickable items". The result is that the exploration gameplay is spoiled and destroyed quite a lot. This gameplay destruction is in fact rather similar to effects of the "follow the cursor" crap.

I was about 90% finished with Dragon Age before I even realized that I could hit 'Tab' to highlight usable items.

 

[Dasale]

So you mean that unlike I wrote there's no need at all to use the "show the usable items" key. Didn't you stop play the game during Dwarf undergrounds? That's not 90% of the game. Did you achieved all secondary quests? Did it work without trouble? Well now I'm not surprised you hadn't enjoy the game.

One of the very badly implemented system in DAO is the cursor and usable items, there's a very very wrong 3D management so for many usable items click on the right spot to use the item is just awful. That is enough to destroy any attempt of playing without the "show the usable items" key.

 

[booboo]

I had fun with Oblivion - initially. But in the end it all felt kind of tedious and repetitive - oblivion gates, onwards to Oblivion, cookie-cutter combats/scenery, back home, travel a bit, get attacked by bandits (in daedric armour), enter ruins (hm, these look kind of familiar? Oh! didn't I kill that elf before, in another ruin? Ah but now he has scaled up armour!) rinse repeat … I enjoyed the Guild quests, but the lack of urgency in everything (esp the main quest), and things like level scaling just irritated me. Also, I do not think it is fair to heap plaudits on a game when it had to be modded into a playable state by the community (eg. level scaling mod, which I never had when I first played it, bad LOD artefacts etc). It was designed with level scaling in mind, and that's how it should be compared to other games. I think I preferred Morrowind - having my own Telvanni mushroom fotress etc - good times ;-) Like another poster, I'd hoped for a Morrowind++...ah well. Maybe ESV?

 

[kalniel]

. I think I preferred Morrowind - having my own Telvanni mushroom fotress etc - good times ;-) Like another poster, I'd hoped for a Morrowind++…ah well. Maybe ESV?

It's funny how these things come around. When Morrowind came out a whole bunch of us Daggerfall fans were really disappointed, and Oblivion directly addressed many of our points, so yeah, Oblivion wasn't a Morrowind++, it was more a Daggerfall++, which is what the fans had been requesting when the design docs will have been drawn up. Given some of the moaning when the design docs for TESV were being drawn up I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes more of a Morrowind++, but then hopefully (from my point of view) they heard the rather quieter songs of praise from people who want more Daggerfall++ products

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

Daggerfall had a lot of potential but fell short in the execution. Bugginess to the max (worse than games like Gothic 3 and NWN 2!), lot of cut features, enormous but incredibly shallow map. It was ambitious. I don't honestly see that ambition in Oblivion's design.

 

[Tragos]

Some quests were really original , like following a ghost to find a treasure or getting inside a painting or a man's dreams , now if there was not "you feel a cold breeze" popups .
Combat was not bad , i find it far more fun than the crappy Gothics version and sneaking - archery was the best ( no question that sniper characters are the best to play , you only need sneaking, illusion and archery to master and forget everything about power gaming).
Getting into ancient ruins was fun too, dark gloomy stuff and monsters ...not to mention traps...now if only they were looking somewhat different from the ruins i see in Athens every day...
Graphics were bad okay , specially mid distance objects , forts disappearing after 20 steps. Arrow speed was laughable , i could walk out of their way 9/10 times.

Another issue was rats , to hell with rats !

I didn't like daggerfall and this is not only because the graphics made my eyes bleed .

 

[JDR13]

Graphics were bad okay , specially mid distance objects , forts disappearing after 20 steps.

Iirc, didn't they increase the texture detail of mid-far distance objects with the Shivering Isles expansion?

 

[Tragos]

Iirc, didn't they increase the texture detail of mid-far distance objects with the Shivering Isles expansion?

I didnt went that far into buying SI

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

It's funny how these things come around. When Morrowind came out a whole bunch of us Daggerfall fans were really disappointed, and Oblivion directly addressed many of our points, so yeah, Oblivion wasn't a Morrowind++, it was more a Daggerfall++, which is what the fans had been requesting when the design docs will have been drawn up.

I have seen that claim quite often, but the reasoning behind it totally eludes me. I rather see an unbroken trend away from Df with each successive game.
- Hallmark of Df was the enormous world - O is smaller than Morrowind
- Df had random timed quests for factions - none of that in either MW or O. On the other hand side quest writing has continually improved from Df to O.
- Df had a complex, even slightly branching main quest revolving a lot around intrigue and power struggles among the nobility - O was entirely linear, and made nothing out of a setting that would have been so rife for intrigue and powergrabs.
- Df had huge semi-randomized dungeons that made no sense, but were exciting, and hard to explore. While the dungeons still make no sense most of the time in O, they are decidedly smaller. In MW, the dungeons made a bit more sense, IMHO.
- Df had a huge amount of skills, and the very cool advantages / disadvantages system in Chargen - O is even further simplified from MW.
- There were certainly no quest or compass markers in DF.

So, in what way is Oblivion a return to Daggerfall except for the more "classic medival fantasy" setting?

 

[Maylander]

Interesting comment. I think it may be because Morrowind even with it's faults was something special and most of us were looking for an IMPROVED Morrowind and instead got 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Morrowing was (and still is) a great game, and I was certainly hoping Oblivion would be an improvement over Morrowind, but it was a huge letdown (Oblivion was stripped of pretty much every feature that made Morrowind special).

I would not be surprised if more felt the same way we do.