Gamasutra - The Past and Future of the Roguelike

[Silver]

Gamasutra examines the past and the future of the 'roguelike' genre.

The more the formula has been played with, the more it has become clear that these ideas can be applied in incredible ways. FTL sent players in a race against time with one chance to stop a fleet that was hot on their trails, with a whole new experience waiting every new run. Rogue Legacy let players throw themselves against an ever-changing castle full of danger, each death creating a new character to carry on the adventure.

All these games and more have truly stuck with their fans. Communities have built up around the stories of failure and success that have been had - amusing deaths in NetHack, the often inevitable fall of a Dwarf Fortress, unlucky drops in Binding of Isaac still get discussed with great interest, while many fans of NetHack are willing to share their first ascension with others, and the various challenge runs in Spelunky are met with anticipation and excitement.

Rougue also inspired a dedicated fan community, who are now holding an all-day festival that will play host to many of the most notable developers working in this subgenre.

Roguelike Celebration takes place on Saturday the 17th in San Francisco. Rogue creators Glenn Wichman, Ken Arnold and Michael Toy will be in attendance, as will the developers of Dwarf Fortress, Jason Grindblat (Caves of Qud), Nicholas Feinberg (Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup), and Jim Shepard (Dungeonmans). Also slated to speak is the creator of popular web RPG Kingdom of Loathing Zack Johnson, and Alexei Pepers will be discussing her work bringing accessibility to NetHack.

Gamasutra spoke to several of the attendees about what they plan to present, and why Roguelikes are more popular than ever.

"We're giving a talk about the Roguelike inspirations for Dwarf Fortress--mostly about the ones from back in the 80s, including Rogue itself," said Tarn Adams, who developed the elaborate simulation Dwarf Fortress with his brother Zach. "It's cool to share what Roguelikes have meant to us and to meet many people that have shaped and been impacted by them. It's really exciting that the Rogue people will be there!"

More information.

 

[Deleted User]

I like some Roguelikes. The dungeon-crawling ones with RPG elements/stuff in them can be a lot of fun.

 

[joxer]

In times of past no amount of coin… Wait… I'm quoting a wrong game. Or perhaps not?

In times of past, apart from logic and hard rules based games (go, chess) there were also those based on pure luck. Like this one:

It was simply not possible to make something that's "more". Not because people had no skill or talent. But because there was no technology to provide necessary means to make something different. A game you'll test your skills and wits without "fighting" against other human(s).

Fastforward to arcades and videogames like Pacman and Phoenix. These were first steps with something that will combine hard rules and archaic AI.

A decade or two passed and we're in era of games with complex or simple rules, complex or simple AI.
For not demanding audience, those with special needs I guess, there are also phonegames and facebook zynga cowclickers but it's a decadent trend and the question is are those games at all. Also there are MMOs but those should be put aside for this matter.

In this era, where technology is on such level one can create a whole world with crazy and twisted logic, there is still a group of people out there who can't, deliberately or not, can't tell a difference between a videogame and gambling.

Luckbased products need to die. I bet the writer of Gamasutra article bought dozens of scandalous boxes in Star Trek Online. Their take that random generator "these ideas can be applied in incredible ways" is plain wrong. Unless it's about slotmachines. In such case, I suggest them to leave videogames be and play Metal Gear pachinko machines.

Rogue and roguelike had a perfect excuse in times machines couldn't do better.
Today, there is no excuse for unbalanced content except hooking gambling addicts to buy a product falsely advertised as a videogame.

 

[Deleted User]

Where's the dislike button?

 

[joxer]

On the brand new and overpriced samsung tablet.

 

[Deleted User]

I don't know anything about Samsung tablets. I have a $200 tablet that is the best gaming tablet on the market.

 

[joxer]

Didn't I say "in times past"… Here's a pic it or it didn't happen:

 

[Deleted User]

Times past? Like this game:

I have that working perfectly on my tablet with a controller. Could get Drakensang on it as well with enough fiddling with a third-party mapping software.

Edit - I actually had Drakensang running on my tablet already. 1080p, 60 FPS. You can stream games now to a screen of your choosing.

 

[ikbenrichard]

Times past? Like this game:

I have that working perfectly on my tablet with a controller. Could get Drakensang on it as well with enough fiddling with a third-party mapping software.

Edit - I actually had Drakensang running on my tablet already. 1080p, 60 FPS. You can stream games now to a screen of your choosing.

What is the name of this game ?

 

[Pessimeister]

Looks like ye ol' Wizards & Warriors to me…(One of D.W Bradley's lesser known greats)

As for rogue-likes, I don't generally play too many of them (I had a modern port of Telengard installed for many years) but their connections and influence upon more classical RPGs remains of interest to me. Thanks for posting, Silver.

 

[Deleted User]

What is the name of this game ?

Wizards and Warriors - The PC version (not to be confused with the console game with the same name.)

 

[TomRon]

I love FTL, but no other Roguelikes have really kept my attention for any longer stretch of time.

And Joxer, I'll have to agree with you in general concerning phone games, IAP is the worst thing to happen to gaming in general, and most phone games exploit it to a degree that's preposterous. There are however developers that make really good games for Android/Apple platforms, and who only charge a one time fee for their games. I love the fact that there are actually decent titles to play on my phone since I get way to little time with my PC and need my daily fix.

 

[Jaguar]

I got into roguelikes because Skavenhorde recommended them on this site. They are a huge amount of fun if you like tactical gameplay more than story.

 

[Deleted User]

I don't really mind IAPs. If a grown adult wants to spend their money on a $100 virtual car in a racing game, that's their decision. If a minor wants to, they better have their parent's permission.

 

[TomRon]

I don't really mind IAPs. If a grown adult wants to spend their money on a $100 virtual car in a racing game, that's their decision. If a minor wants to, they better have their parent's permission.

Seriously? The problem with IAP's are huge in my opinion. Most games you have to spend upwards of 1000$ to be competitive. That's a shitload of money… And that there are in fact idiots who spend that much makes the market flooded with games that exploits that. You get an audience for games where a huge portion of the player base are stupid kids who assume everything should be free (just read the reviews on Appstore or Google play for games that aren't), and then you have the whales willing to pay anything to be on top.

I don't want to play those games, because I neither want to miss out on half the game nor do I wish to pay those amounts of money. But which games earn to most money? It's damn depressing, and under no circumstances should anyone who actually likes computer games be ok with IAP. They screw up the entire gaming industry.

 

[Deleted User]

If you don't like games with IAPs, don't play them.

I don't gamble, but if a grown person wants to do that, hey, more power to them.

I've played a few games I liked that had IAPs and even made a few small ones to support the game. I wouldn't spend $1000 unless I had that sort of money to blow and either really liked the game or really wanted to support the developers.

LOTRO had a F2P model and I played it free for awhile, enjoyed the game so much that I had no problem spending some money on it.

 

[TomRon]

That's the thing Fluent, I do choose not to play them. The problem is that it's very hard for developers of mobile games to succeed if they DON'T use the IAP model. Even though 5$ is nothing for a good game most players on mobile devices have become accustomed to getting games for free (funded by whales actually). And then the "good" developers (IMO of course) doesn't make enough to support their business. That's why I loath IAP, it's not the phenomenon as such, it's the consequences.

 

[Deleted User]

That's the thing Fluent, I do choose not to play them. The problem is that it's very hard for developers of mobile games to succeed if they DON'T use the IAP model. Even though 5$ is nothing for a good game most players on mobile devices have become accustomed to getting games for free (funded by whales actually). And then the "good" developers (IMO of course) doesn't make enough to support their business. That's why I loath IAP, it's not the phenomenon as such, it's the consequences.

I hear that. The thing is, IAPs are more of a consequence of tremendous competition, the indie craze, games being more available and easier to make, etc. It's just an evolution or path that was bound to happen, IMO. High demand but much higher supply.

There are good games on mobile with minimal or no IAPs. Spiderweb Software games, for example. And some games I play have minimal or non-intrusive IAPs, as I said.

 

[fadedc]

IAPs are a big problem, but they aren't going anywhere so there is not much we can do. I have no problem playing games with heavy IAP as long as I can make progress without them. I will never give them any money no matter how much I love the game. I get some satisfaction from knowing that they lost money on me because I would have happily paid an upfront price if they had gone that route. But at the end of the day I know that they will make enough money from the IAP buyers that they won't care about the $5 they might have lost from me for not just having an upfront price.

 

[Deleted User]

IAPs are a big problem, but they aren't going anywhere so there is not much we can do. I have no problem playing games with heavy IAP as long as I can make progress without them. I will never give them any money no matter how much I love the game. I get some satisfaction from knowing that they lost money on me because I would have happily paid an upfront price if they had gone that route. But at the end of the day I know that they will make enough money from the IAP buyers that they won't care about the $5 they might have lost from me for not just having an upfront price.

That's just a shitty attitude about it. If I like any game and can afford to support it, I do. Not all IAPs are "evil", either. Some games let you play for free and decide which features or content you'd like to purchase. Some games even let you play indefinitely for free and charge very little for any content upgrades. In a way, they are like DLC packages for PC games that let players customize or choose the content they want. More options.