Grim Dawn - Full Release on Thursday

[Archangel]

In D3 you use 6 skills tops and some of those can also be passive.

I had builds in GD that had 8+ skills on quickbar. And that is without counting passive ones.

 

[Acleacius]

Gratz on the game success!

The thing that keeps me from playing ARPGs despite how much and want too, is the loot. I can't abide the randomized trash loot, which basically never allows you to get a set based on your class. After decades of gaming and being able to craft sets or get class based, specific loot-drop set pieces from real RPGs and MMOGs, it's just too schizophrenic.

 

[Drithius]

I bought this a couple week's back in preparation for launch, but I can't really get excited about it. Especially with a new Path of Exile update coming in a couple weeks. The game (Grim Dawn) just felt... slow... when I tried it out.

 

[mercy]

Grim Dawn deserves all praise in the age of Crappy Fallout 4..

 

[DArtagnan]

I bought this a couple week's back in preparation for launch, but I can't really get excited about it. Especially with a new Path of Exile update coming in a couple weeks. The game (Grim Dawn) just felt… slow… when I tried it out.

Overall, I definitely prefer Path of Exile - as it has a lot more flavor to its skill gem system.

Grim Dawn doesn't look or play like something that's been in development for seven years, it really doesn't.

That said, if you enjoyed Titan Quest - this is all but identical except for the setting and a few neat features - so there's that.

Well, except I thought Titan Quest had superior landscapes.

Not to say Grim Dawn is bad - as it's solid enough. It just doesn't excite me in any way whatsoever.

I have a hard time following the source of praise - but I remember a similar reaction to Torchlight 2. People were very quick to hail it as the second coming compared to D3 and now it's all but forgotten.

Sometimes, I think it's more of a reaction against Diablo 3 than anything else. Though, I could simply be unable to notice all the cool stuff.

 

[forgottenlor]

@DArt

Both of those games (Grim Dawn and Torchlight 2) are not online only. That really bothered me in Path of Exile and is the reason I've never bought D3. Granted, I don't play coop, and don't play through such games normally more than once (I did play through Titan Quest 2 times, and started it about 4 times, just to experiment with the different builds, a real exception for a hack & slay game). Anyways what I guess I'm trying to say is that there may be reasons that Grim Dawn and Torchlight 2 appeal to people here. Maybe they aren't the kind of people who invest 100s of hours in this kind of game, which you do, and that may be why other games appeal more to you.

 

[DArtagnan]

@DArt

Both of those games (Grim Dawn and Torchlight 2) are not online only. That really bothered me in Path of Exile and is the reason I've never bought D3. Granted, I don't play coop, and don't play through such games normally more than once (I did play through Titan Quest 2 times, and started it about 4 times, just to experiment with the different builds, a real exception for a hack & slay game). Anyways what I guess I'm trying to say is that there may be reasons that Grim Dawn and Torchlight 2 appeal to people here. Maybe they aren't the kind of people who invest 100s of hours in this kind of game, which you do, and that may be why other games appeal more to you.

Oh, I'm not talking about that at all.

I'm talking about people praising Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn for being vastly superior in terms of pure gameplay- including skills, loot, combat and so on - which I struggle to appreciate.

I DO agree that most ARPGs have a more interesting character system than D3 - because Blizzard chose to more or less do away with it altogether. But once you look past that, there's a ton of variety within the classes when you combine things like legendary gear and gems with the absurd amount of skills in the game.

I normally don't invest hundreds of hours into the genre - though I've done so with Diablo 3. I never expected to, honestly, but the core experience is just that good and they've improved the design immensely throughout.

Still full of flaws and not at all the Diablo 2 sequel I would have wanted, but it's still great.

In the end, people just like different things for different reasons.

But sometimes I have an easier time following why than others. In this case, I have a hard time seeing what's so fantastic. I really don't get it.

 

[redman5427]

I like Grim Dawn a lot and I can't compare the two because D3 has an expansion and tons of free content released. Diablo is a blast right now but I want to wait a bit until I'm sure Grim dawn is done.

 

[forgottenlor]

Oh, I'm not talking about that at all.

I'm talking about people praising Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn for being vastly superior in terms of pure gameplay- including skills, loot, combat and so on - which I struggle to appreciate.

I DO agree that most ARPGs have a more interesting character system than D3 - because Blizzard chose to more or less do away with it altogether. But once you look past that, there's a ton of variety within the classes when you combine things like legendary gear and gems with the absurd amount of skills in the game.

I normally don't invest hundreds of hours into the genre - though I've done so with Diablo 3. I never expected to, honestly, but the core experience is just that good and they've improved the design immensely throughout.

Still full of flaws and not at all the Diablo 2 sequel I would have wanted, but it's still great.

In the end, people just like different things for different reasons.

But sometimes I have an easier time following why than others. In this case, I have a hard time seeing what's so fantastic. I really don't get it.

Having not played D3, I can't comment about it. I think I'd be put off by not being able to build interesting characters though. That's one of my favorite aspects of a dungeon crawler.
I do agree with you however that some people harbor a great hatred for games produced by big publishers, and often for reasons that have nothing to do with gameplay (such as drm, and dlcs for example) and these color their arguments about gameplay. They want these games to fail, I think, and so go out of their way to try to find reasons why they aren't good.

 

[greywolf00]

I'm not a fan of TQ, and I had a hard time getting into Grim Dawn early on. I went back to test it out not too long ago when it went content complete, and I'm actually quite enjoying it. It takes awhile to get going, you need to be about level 10-15 before hitting the stride I'm used to in ARPGs.

Granted, Dart has a valid point with the limited usable abilities. I have 3 auras, 1 from an item, 1 shout, 1 heal, and 2 attacks, one from an item at level 36. I really like the shrine and devotion system though, adding additional properties to your abilities and leveling with you.

Ultimately, even though it's not as polished and pretty as D3, I find it far more interesting, and the character building is infinitely better imo. At this point, pre-expansion 2 for PoE, I also prefer Grim Dawn.

 

[Archangel]

Some builds don't use many abilities and some do. That is no different than other aRPGs.

 

[johnnysd]

They've improved the game quite a bit along the way, but ultimately I think it's pretty bland and generic.


Also, after the loot 2.0 patch - legendary loot in Diablo 3 is a lot more interesting to me than anything I've found in Grim Dawn. That's where the character building aspect of Diablo 3 comes into play.


The moment to moment gameplay of Diablo 3 is so superior to Grim Dawn I lack the words.

Still, to each his own

That said, I do like the superior complexity of both Grim Dawn and Path of Exile. It's just too bad that they're both similarly dreary and depressing. Combat in Grim Dawn is a snorefest if I ever saw one.

Sometimes, I think it's more of a reaction against Diablo 3 than anything else. Though, I could simply be unable to notice all the cool stuff.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I'm not talking about that at all.

I'm talking about people praising Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn for being vastly superior in terms of pure gameplay- including skills, loot, combat and so on - which I struggle to appreciate.

I DO agree that most ARPGs have a more interesting character system than D3 - because Blizzard chose to more or less do away with it altogether. But once you look past that, there's a ton of variety within the classes when you combine things like legendary gear and gems with the absurd amount of skills in the game.

I normally don't invest hundreds of hours into the genre - though I've done so with Diablo 3. I never expected to, honestly, but the core experience is just that good and they've improved the design immensely throughout.

Still full of flaws and not at all the Diablo 2 sequel I would have wanted, but it's still great.

In the end, people just like different things for different reasons.

But sometimes I have an easier time following why than others. In this case, I have a hard time seeing what's so fantastic. I really don't get it.

I am completely baffled by your statements. You are entitled to your opinion, but I just dont understand these points at all.

If any game is bland and generic it is Diablo 3. There isnt an interesting element to the entire game. The main quest is complete crap, the entire game is leveled, and all those skills are basically the same.

Loot is better since they stopped trying to make money off of it but still boring despite uniques dropping all the time.

The core experience of D3 is pathetic. It is 100% grind. And there is really no difficulty scale just a speed of clearance scale which is why people say play either Torment II or Torment X because of the RATE of obtaining legendaries. Nephalem Rifts and Greater Rifts are incredibly banal and boring.

The skill system and the skills themselves are mind numbing-ly homogenized and scaled. Paragon levels are a great idea but the implementation is as boring as possible.

Sad thing, is D3 at the first Blizzon was AWESOME. Almost perfect and the additional depth they planned was fantastic. But then the game got shallower and shallower and shallower until in the Beta literally all they did was remove feature after feature until nothing was left. And Loot 2.0 is just lipstick on a pig. Diablo 3 is a terrible game.

TL2 WAS better than D3. Titan Quest and Grim Dawn are both better than D3. But the reason they do not have longevity is simple. They do not have a persistent online presence with league play and exploit controls. These things cost more though than the entire budget of a TL2 or a GD, so they dont exist. So POE and D3 will have longer longevity than GD but for only this reason.

And I have played D3 quite a bit. I really want to like it. D2 was and is one of my favorite games ever, but outside of graphics and animations (they are fantastic in D3) D3 is an incredibly shallow and very boring shell of a game.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Well, it didn't take long for D'artagnan to get into a fight with someone.
As for this, how do skills play out? Is there anything similar to charge'em up like D2 Assassin?

 

[rossrjensen]

I played Diablo 3 upon release, even beat the main campaign. I felt like it was okay. But it also didn't exactly live up to the hype I built. I haven't bothered to keep up with all the changes, honestly, I just never felt compelled to go back. I've already put more time into Grim Dawn. I just enjoy it better, and can see myself going back to it much more. Grim Dawn has been better for me, and the fact that I paid half the price of D3 for a copy for me and a friend during Grim Dawn's Kickstarter makes me even more pleased. That's my anecdotal experience.

I haven't played Torchlight 2 as much as either, but I think I enjoyed my short time with it over D3 as well. I am not a Diablo-hater by any means, I consider the original game to be a defining game for me.

 

[irongamer]

Personally, I enjoyed Torchlight 2 more than Diablo 3 or Path of Exile. I gave Diablo 3 another go when they got rid of the auction house and added the paladin. Still didn't keep me around long. I liked the idea of Path of Exile but it didn't hook me either. For now it is Grim Dawn. I could say Grim Dawn is better or worse in general but that is just my biased opinion. What I can say is that I'm still playing it. Different people enjoy different settings and gameplay.

I'll admit that I will play a game and once I get a general feel for the gameplay I'll move on to find new/different gameplay. For some reason I stuck with Torchlight 2 for quite a while.

 

[Arkadia7]

I'm lovin' Grim Dawn. I have nearly 20 hours in and am level 22, and still in Act 1. But keep in mind, I'm one of those players who explore every nook and cranny, so I get a lot more hours out of these games than the typical player.

I will say, the game does seem a little too easy, but that is probably a combo of factors. My play style probably means I am over leveling and the areas are meant for lower levels. I play on normal difficulty. And I am playing a brute force type build, a two handed sword wielding brute, who can one hit most of the monsters, because he does massive damage. The fact they include paladin type abilities, such as an auto heal ability when your health gets low, means my character is kind of unstoppable, no matter how many enemies they throw at him. Even bosses don't last very long against the brute. LoL, I still have a lot of fun playing this game though…

Oh, and I'm not a Diablo fan at all. But this game hits all the right notes for me.

 

[DArtagnan]

I am completely baffled by your statements. You are entitled to your opinion, but I just dont understand these points at all.

If any game is bland and generic it is Diablo 3. There isnt an interesting element to the entire game. The main quest is complete crap, the entire game is leveled, and all those skills are basically the same.

Loot is better since they stopped trying to make money off of it but still boring despite uniques dropping all the time.

The core experience of D3 is pathetic. It is 100% grind. And there is really no difficulty scale just a speed of clearance scale which is why people say play either Torment II or Torment X because of the RATE of obtaining legendaries. Nephalem Rifts and Greater Rifts are incredibly banal and boring.

The skill system and the skills themselves are mind numbing-ly homogenized and scaled. Paragon levels are a great idea but the implementation is as boring as possible.

Sad thing, is D3 at the first Blizzon was AWESOME. Almost perfect and the additional depth they planned was fantastic. But then the game got shallower and shallower and shallower until in the Beta literally all they did was remove feature after feature until nothing was left. And Loot 2.0 is just lipstick on a pig. Diablo 3 is a terrible game.

TL2 WAS better than D3. Titan Quest and Grim Dawn are both better than D3. But the reason they do not have longevity is simple. They do not have a persistent online presence with league play and exploit controls. These things cost more though than the entire budget of a TL2 or a GD, so they dont exist. So POE and D3 will have longer longevity than GD but for only this reason.

And I have played D3 quite a bit. I really want to like it. D2 was and is one of my favorite games ever, but outside of graphics and animations (they are fantastic in D3) D3 is an incredibly shallow and very boring shell of a game.

It all comes down to taste

You seem very emotionally invested against D3 in ways that have nothing to do with the actual gameplay - and your statement is peppered with little attacks at their philosophy. Also, if you really think an earlier incomplete version was, somehow, better without a doubt - it kinda tells me you're basing that on your imagination rather than reality - and imagination is always better when it comes to games.

I don't personally care about games being online or offline - as I'm always online. I can disagree with games that force online for no good reason, but I still wouldn't care much. But I understood the reasons Blizzard had for going that way.

I understood and agreed with the concept of RMAH - and I'm sad they got pressured into removing it.

As for scaling skills - that's pretty standard for the genre, and it's true for all the other games we're talking about. As for homogenized - I guess there's always that argument in any game, but at least Blizzard understands that skills should not only behave differently - they should look and sound very distinct. Something that Grim Dawn doesn't seem to strive towards. Anyway, all skills tend to do only a handful of things in any game - including buff, debuff, heal, damage, boost speed, etc.

I doubt you'd find a game that breaks that kind of barrier anywhere.

The key is whether the skills play out differently - and I think they do that very much in Diablo 3. Especially when you consider just how many active skills they've managed to put in there.

That said, obviously Blizzard has a much larger team and much more experienced artists - so it's not necessarily a fair comparison.

Grim Dawn has a small portion of actives that repeat from characters to items - and the rest are passive boosts. That's cool and all, but it doesn't excite me much.

That said, I'm not happy with how weapons are largely "DPS sticks" with minimal differences - and that's one of the worst parts of the D3 design.

That was one of the best things about Hellgate and Borderlands - where weapons - at the core - were truly different.

As for Torchlight 2, that was a nice little game with a few neat features. But I have to laugh at your problem with the D3 story when you think of how shallow TL2 is. Talk about being grind only.

Let's not kid ourselves - the entire genre is and always has been about grinding once you get through the content. Grim Dawn is most certainly no different here. So that criticism is pretty invalid.

As for the story in the campaign, I tend to agree it's pretty bad. But the presentation and level of immersion is much, much higher than the bland generic text splashes in Grim Dawn. The recent voice acting didn't help much - as they sound pretty unengaged.

I don't participate in leagues or anything of that nature. The reason I still play Diablo 3 is that I still think it's fun - that's all.

Grim Dawn gave me around 40 hours all in all - and I doubt I'll play much more than that. It's just that dull.

Path of Exile is the better of the alternatives - because of its much more in-depth character system and skill system. But it just can't match Diablo 3 in terms of loot and core gameplay.

Anyway, it all comes down to tastes.

 

[DArtagnan]

Well, it didn't take long for D'artagnan to get into a fight with someone.
As for this, how do skills play out? Is there anything similar to charge'em up like D2 Assassin?

Debates aren't fights for all of us

 

[fatknacker50]

"That was one of the best things about Hellgate and Borderlands" Borderlands, yep, but the shitefest that was Hellgate... all that debating down the crapper. :lol:

 

[greywolf00]

I will say, the game does seem a little too easy, but that is probably a combo of factors.

The Chamber of Souls and the accompanying levels were the first time I hit a difficult area. I'm not sure if you can over level it (scaling?), or I just went in too early. Things were 3-5 levels ahead of me. Bosses did meaningful damage. Was a good time.