Skyrim Is Skyrim better than Oblivion?

[rossrjensen]

The problem with this, is that person would post a youtube video of his success and then every gamer would have this item at level one. So does Bethesda try to balance the game with that in mind, or just leave the uber item only for an uber character….

Well, I still think that if a player cares about over-powering his lvl 1 character enough to watch a video and try to mimic it to obtain some grossly powerful loot, you should let him. I think Fallout 2 had the right idea (sneaking in to get power armor). I never thought to do it myself. But if I cared that much about it, why not let me?

 

[zahratustra]

Agreed rossrjensen. Specially that, if somebody wants uber items for his low level char, they can always add them through the console.

 

[rossrjensen]

Ok, may be I read to much into your and Firestorm's examples. In addition I read elsewhere that you can get head of the mage guild on a very low level, when in fact you barely manage magic at all. In a good design you would need to be a high level mage in order to be able to be head of a mage guild, obviously.

It's definitely possible to finish the college at a lower level. I have been playing a magic based character so the college is the first place I headed. I probably beat it at around level 15 and acquired some rad gear, but it was very challenging for me near the end of the questline, and I am playing on the default difficulty.

 

[BillSeurer]

The battle to get the Staff of XYZZY is not winnable by a low level mage unless you either use exploits or just plain get lucky. I realized that when I had completely run out of potions and hadn't really scratched the foe while he could take me down in about 2 seconds in the open. I suppose I could have come in with 906 potions and staggered my way to him. Even the earlier parts of that place were pretty tough.

 

[Deleted User]

You didn´t address the main point of my previous post, btw.

Why does the dragonborn have to train with Vilkas? I guess it's a formality, to see if you really have any sort of skill to join them, or if you're all hype. Obviously it only takes one swing for him to realize you're the real deal. I suppose if you swung at him like a wuss, he'd say sorry, dragonborn or not you're not joining us with a swing like that.

Also, you become a spoiler because that's what the Circle does, and Aela is kind of grooming you behind Kodlak's back. She believes in the spoilers, and she passes that on to you. Dragonborn or not, they do have traditions in the Companions, and in order to join the Circle you had to be initiated. I'm sure the College has some initiation rites too.

Maybe the factions don't take into account that you're dragonborn. Maybe it just really is easy to advance in these places. Still, does Morrowind's approach really make much more sense? What if you did what you did for Kodlak and then you are told by Aela you don't have enough skill in one-handed to become Harbinger.

I'm not knocking Morrowind's system. It was good. I'm just saying Skyrim did it differently. To me, it's just different. A new approach.

And maybe the Companions fails as a guild, because it's not supposed to be a guild. In Morrowind, it made sense that by joining a guild (and it's important to realize Morrowind's guilds are very much real guilds. You paid dues to them, and performed guild duties in a formal fashion, and advanced very firm ranks, etc), you would have to progress up the ranks of the guilds to get to the top. But the Companions is not a fighters guild in the traditional sense, nor is the College of Winterhold. They are "factions", or groups, and the rules are really anything goes for them. Yes they have their traditions, and their positions of power, but it's not as set in stone as traditional guilds. Anyone can become "leader" of those groups just by doing the right things that others in the group may lack the skill, bravery, or cleverness to pull off. I see nothing wrong with that.

And if it so happens that you seem to be the chosen one of legend for these groups, I see nothing wrong with that either, given it makes sense in the lore and the writing. I can't speak for all the factions, but for the Companions, it certainly made sense and followed a very natural course. I'm not saying you get a free pass either for being the chosen one. Yes you appeared in Kodlak's dreams, but you still had to perform the actions. And like I said, actions speak louder than anything. You performed the heroic deeds, you gained favor, and eventually become the "leader".

I don't even agree that the Companions line was too short. I felt it was perfect. Like I said, I don't want to be killing Silver Hand by the millions just to puff out the content. The content was a good length, and "meaty" with some good twists and turns and events that took place.

So all in all, different from Morrowind, still as viable, still as good. Just different.

 

[Tragos]

Storylines are much longer than in Oblivion.

The level scaling is vastly better. Seriously Tragos, did you even play the game?

Fewer skills and no attributes is because they redid the whole level advancement scheme which was one of the worst things about Oblivion. The new one is not perfect but it is miles beyond what Oblivion had.

Reduced content? Ok, I give up.

I played it for 3 hours - mostly testing mechanics and watched a good 2 hours of videos ( i am following this gix17 guy in his "let's play" TES series) . The difference in scaling is that they just keep low level creatures / bandits around and their gear is never daedric or full glass - but they do get glass/ebony weapons.
Yeah the system is better now , the taller you are the harder you hit and the faster you run , fantastic idea!

Are you sure you're talking about Skyrim? The Elder Scrolls V?
Really?

Check number of monsters in SK in comparison to OB and MW
I am too lazy to prove all my points one by one now so maybe some other time.

 

[bloodlover]

So you after three hours of gameplay - mostly testing mechanics and two hours of youtube video you were convinced that the game sucks? Now it's even harder to take your posts serious.

 

[booboo]

Better? Overall I'd say yes. The main story line was certainly better executed and more interesting. On specific issues - Quests: I was fairly disappointed with the mage quest line - it was too short and the world hardly accommodated the fact that you were now the archmage (the *only* one in all of Skyrim). I'll try the Companions when I eventually play again. I noticed numerous quest inconsistencies and there were many kill-this-get-that type quests. Magic - I also felt magic was poorer (less varied spells, no spell making etc) and perks came too quickly - for example, as a mage I'd maxed out all the schools I was focussing on fairly soon. Perks had no level requirement - so you could shoot up one branch quickly. Dungeons - Everyone seems to rave about dungeon design…sure, the first dozen or two were interesting and new. Then the same building blocks become very apparent: same puzzles, same design, same creatures - draugr for most part - yet another Draugr deathlord with a shout, similar layout. Adding in journals (to explain what had happened) in some dungeons was a nice touch - but in many cases they were simply not interesting. Far more interesting was stumbling on to some clandestine operation run by high level people… but that did not happen that often. Loot -
I only found a few 'high level' loot items, but never exceptionally high level items. The items you can craft are better than practically anything you can purchase or be rewarded with - rather irritating.

The world design was generally very good and appropriate - Skyrim was not as dull as I had feared. I just wish that hadn't trimmed off some of the things they did.

 

[zahratustra]

Ok so let me change question a bit: Is Skyrim better than Morrowind?

 

[DArtagnan]

Ok so let me change question a bit: Is Skyrim better than Morrowind?

Far better, in my opinion

 

[KapitanUnterhosen]

Better than oblivion in nearly every aspect although I preferred oblivion's version of the dark brotherhood, maybe because it really stood out against the general crappiness of that game. Skyrim's last two contracts for the DB are very memorable though.

Still much more fond of morrowind than skyrim, morrowind keeps getting better as you play, you keep finding new and exotic locales, new factions, new armor and weapon types, questlines become more and more involved, skyrim does the opposite: the world feels smaller as you progress due to the lack of variety in towns, dungeons and quests, the main questline goes nowhere and feels rushed, the companions and particularly the college questlines are jokes and if you level up fast by not using followers and sticking to just a couple of stealth skills then you'll quickly be facing off against bandits in glass armor and finding daedric armor in chests while the richest and most powerful nobles have to make do with steel. Not to mention that quest-wise skyrim is dwarfed by morrowind.

 

[bloodlover]

Ok so let me change question a bit: Is Skyrim better than Morrowind?

No. They messed up some important things like

-> no spellmaking
-> spells are complete jokes and fewer types
-> less weapon types
-> the fact that you can become leader of all guilds without even the proper knowledge (I shouldn't be able to become archamge if I only know low level basic spells)

 

[Maylander]

Ok so let me change question a bit: Is Skyrim better than Morrowind?

Not in my opinion, but it really is far better than Oblivion (as others have mentioned many times already).

Regarding guilds: I still prefer the Morrowind approach, where both actions and skills matter. Sure, actions and being the Dragonborn can affect the situation, but there's no way the few things a character does in Skyrim or Oblivion should be enough to surpass exceptionally skilled individuals who have dedicated their entire lives to a certain faction.

That's like putting Obama as the captain of a football team, despite not being able to do well on the pitch. You can't be an "Arch Mage" without magic skills any more than you can be the captain of a football team without being able to play football.

 

[crpgnut]

The Archmage at Winterhold is a political position, not a magely one. The gal you meet out front deals with school matters and the teachers are the true mages. I got the feeling that Savros was a competent necromancer/conjurer but that wasn't his purpose as Archmage. His purpose was to deal with folks like the Thalmor. I could see them giving that job to the Dragonborn.

I still agree that a low level character shouldn't be offered the position at all. Some quests in the chain should have a level requirement, at minimum.

 

[Tragos]

So you after three hours of gameplay - mostly testing mechanics and two hours of youtube video you were convinced that the game sucks? Now it's even harder to take your posts serious.

Not only it sucks but it sucks big time , first of all playing a High Elf (Altmer?) is easier than playing a Wood Elf ( Bosmer?) because they are taller so they hit harder and run faster.

Levelling non combat skills is useless and it will get you pwnd in the field of battle

Loot is only worth to get for disenchanting since the best items can only be made by you via smithing & enchanting

(Destruction) Magic is broken because high level spells take forever to cast and their damage output does not scale with level .

Dragons are a joke , i only fought 1 but it stuck on a mammoth while flying low and died in the process .

Sneaking is vastly superior from everything else

Archery is a joke, from too hard to aim & too short fire distance it gets ridiculously easy after you get 2 slow time perks , time slows so much that you can fire 2 arrows and dodge all the incomings before enemies have a chance to move.

Quests are forced on you in an anal way, i found the headless cavalry guy but i couldn't talk to him because the quest ( that it is obviously related to him) haven't fire at the other hand a "hey will you help me investigate a house" turned out to be a daedric quest.

The only thing that differentiates species is their height

You can join all factions in 1 go and there are no prerequisites , level 10 is okay to finish the fighters guilt (or what is their new name)

Sites you empty are "repopulated" by the exact same people standing in the exact same positions , their gear/HP may change if you go back in a different level

Except Solitude "cities" have as many people as Ashlander camps in MW and only 5-4 buildings…. not to talk about their architecture .

Writing is typical Bethesda crap & dialogues are retarded

Annoying greeting system

Potions are so common in dungeons that you dont have to buy or made any of them , ever.

And this is for playing/watching for few hours (ok i did level up wildly via the console and add several spell tomes to try magic ) i imagine if i had the will to play it more i will be able to find more.
The only game really worst than OB is Arcania , you can not go lower than that .

*bottom edit : Hunters yelling "victory of Sovegart" while "fighting" a rabbit , yep!

 

[DeepO]

Why does the dragonborn have to train with Vilkas? I guess it's a formality, to see if you really have any sort of skill to join them, or if you're all hype. Obviously it only takes one swing for him to realize you're the real deal. I suppose if you swung at him like a wuss, he'd say sorry, dragonborn or not you're not joining us with a swing like that.

But you are a wuss if your weapon skill is 20. And he still thinks you´re a real deal. Case closed.

Aela is kind of grooming you behind Kodlak's back. She believes in the spoilers, and she passes that on to you.

Yes, they seeded a potential conflict in there, but then didn´t go anywhere with it.

Dragonborn or not,

That doesn´t bode well for your previous "rationalizations".

they do have traditions in the Companions,

Traditions you are tasked to break shortly afterwards.

Maybe the factions don't take into account that you're dragonborn. Maybe it just really is easy to advance in these places. Still, does Morrowind's approach really make much more sense?

Yes.

What if you did what you did for Kodlak and then you are told by Aela you don't have enough skill in one-handed to become Harbinger.

Why should such example occur? There´s a myriad of ways how to structure these things.


As for your other points, it doesn´t matter what makes sense in lore etc., the guild gameplay could be made more interesting even with the existing basic set up. As it is, it lacks build up and is dissociated from character development.

So all in all, different from Morrowind, still as viable, still as good. Just different.

OK. Let´s agree to disagree .

 

[Maylander]

The Archmage at Winterhold is a political position, not a magely one. The gal you meet out front deals with school matters and the teachers are the true mages. I got the feeling that Savros was a competent necromancer/conjurer but that wasn't his purpose as Archmage. His purpose was to deal with folks like the Thalmor. I could see them giving that job to the Dragonborn.

I feel you're reversing their positions. The gal is the one you see dealing with the Thalmor and what not. She runs the guild on a day-to-day basis, but she's not the actual leader, nor does she make the important decisions. That's down to the Arch Mage - he or she is the one who can decide whether to invite the Thalmor at all, the one with all the authority.

She's something of a daily manager, while the Arch Mage is the boss.

 

[Lev]

In my opinion Skyrim is way better than Oblivion.
And so far I find it more interesting than Morrowind.

About guilds. While it's nice to be a grand-arch-super-awsome-head-master of each of 8 guilds (was it 8?) in Oblivion, I find it rather stupid in common sence. It is not possible to be the number one in such different subjects like magic, fighting, stealing, charming at the same time. Try to take a place of your boss in real life as see how successful you are. . Skyrim is a good attempt to step away from this approach as far as I can see. Yeah, there is a fighting guild in Skyrim. But is it a guild at all? Or it is a group of people that don't even have a formal leader? There are many quests lines besides the guild quest lines and I like it.

 

[rossrjensen]

On specific issues - Quests: I was fairly disappointed with the mage quest line - it was too short and the world hardly accommodated the fact that you were now the archmage (the *only* one in all of Skyrim).

I quite enjoyed the mage questline. I would say you're right that the world doesn't really change to reflect you being the archmage though.

Magic - I also felt magic was poorer (less varied spells, no spell making etc) and perks came too quickly - for example, as a mage I'd maxed out all the schools I was focussing on fairly soon. Perks had no level requirement - so you could shoot up one branch quickly.

I am lost here. I am focusing on Destruction magic and I am not even close to maxing out anything. There are no level requirements but there are skill requirements. I have a 59 skill rating for destruction and I need to have 100 before I will be able to use all the perks. It will take an awfully long time to get there.

 

[KapitanUnterhosen]

I take it he meant character level requirement.