JA2 Reloaded - No TB Combat!

[tolknaz]

Do you call Baldur's Gate a RTS or do you acknowledge that a pauseable game is neither of the above?

Calling Baldur's Gate an RTS wouldn't be entirely wrong. At one point the game was named Battleground: Infinity and was to become an RTS. Then interplay saw it, liked it and convinced bioware to shoehorn it into an AD&D rpg. The roots still show in lots of game mechanics though.

 

[BillSeurer]

You know I thought I was one of the most "liberal" people here in what I am willing to label as an RPG but even I can't call JA2 an RPG. It has most (all?) of what RPGs have but there is something in the mix of the whole that is just missing.

 

[HiddenX]

Reaction of BitComposer to the international forum turmoil:

Dear Community,

We knew when we announced our intention to modernize the combat system in JA2:R that we would spark off a heated discussion. However, we are shocked at the way this discussion is being conducted in the forums. It is extremely useful for us to hear the honest opinions of all the members of the forum, but personal insults, slander and abuse have no place in this forum and are totally unacceptable. Our aim was and is to engage in an objective and mutually respectful discussion. We are ready to listen to all proposals, wishes and complaints, but we would ask you for objective comments, even though the subject has clearly aroused some strong emotions in certain forum participants.

We have of course been thinking long and hard of how to optimize the combat system. With a new edition of such a closely monitored and universally loved title as this, we would not satisfy the players’ demands were we to merely change the graphics while ignoring the other aspects of the game.

Our objective was and is to modernize both the both the look and feel of the game to live up to the expectations of a contemporary title. With this in mind, we have of course also scrutinized the combat system to assess how here too we can produce an up-to-date adaptation and version. This has not happened without first having an intense exchange of opinion with fans and enthusiasts of the genre. In this respect, we have also looked closely at the later developments in classic games such as the Fallout series for example. As opinions differ wildly, we regret we won’t be able to please everyone. However, we believe the changes to the combat system will make the gameplay much more accessible, intuitive and up-to-date, while retaining the elements that have marked out JA2 as special.

We assume you would like your input to have some influence on the development of JA2:R and are still keen to receive your support in the form of constructive and objective contributions and comments. Once the new combat system has been reworked, we will give forum members the opportunity to test the game flow. More info to follow shortly.

Best wishes until then

One word -> decline

 

[Thrasher]

It doesn't sound like they are listening. Why would anyone bother? Rather insulting, isn't it?

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

In this respect, we have also looked closely at the later developments in classic games such as the Fallout series for example.

This is priceless.

Now THIS is the actual proof I've been looking for so long that smaller developers are actually copying from bigger ones. THANK YOU, BitCompser !!!

 

[Amasius]

Gah. How stupid can they be? Fallout 3 was an AAA title done by an experienced RPG dev with a huge budget. While I'm not to happy about the direction F3 took it's not hard to understand why it was so successful.

JA2R on the other hand will be a niche title no matter what. Turnbased, realtime or RTwP, it won't make a huge difference. (Except that the latter two will alienate the fanbase…)

Ok, I don't know anything about bitComposers budget but they certainly lack experience. A faithful remake just with updated graphics? Shouldn't be to difficult. But an entirely new combat system? This will change the whole game and I don't see how they can pull it off. And even if they do who will buy it? There is a huge market for sandbox RPGs but for squad based tactical games in a realistic modern setting?

 

[Gorath]

They should really stop letting their marketing department write forum statements.

 

[GothicGothicness]

I am beginning to think they have EA as publisher.......

 

[skavenhorde]

This is priceless.

Now THIS is the actual proof I've been looking for so long that smaller developers are actually copying from bigger ones. THANK YOU, BitCompser !!!

Yea, I thought that was hilarious.

Their idea is more like The Fall: Last Days of Gaia. We all know how well that one did.

 

[DArtagnan]

Smaller doesn't make you less greedy.

Indie isn't implicitly about art.

Some people tend to forget that

 

[skavenhorde]

Not nessarily. Sure companies want to make a ton of money, but some of the smaller ones actually do care about making a product that will fit into their niche.

Plus, they're example of what Beth did with Fallout does not fit. Beth was already established as a First Person Point of View gaming company and they changed the game to fit the types of games they were known for. Bitcomposer isn't changing the view, they're just changing the actual gameplay with this "reloaded" version. Why couldn't they just make this one TB and do whatever they they want in JA 3?

That's what I found so funny. Not so much that smaller companies are copying bigger ones.

 

[DArtagnan]

Not nessarily. Sure companies want to make a ton of money, but some of the smaller ones actually do care about making a product that will fit into their niche.

Definitely.

I'm just saying that some people tend to equate indie games with "purity" and a desire to make art.

They DO have more freedom to pursue that, but it certainly doesn't mean they necessarily want to.

Obviously, in this case - we have a developer going for profit before art.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

If I was an Indie dev, I'd like to have a few coins for my game, too.

I think every developer should get a few coins at least - both as sign of appreciation and respect from the buyers, and as a sign of self-reassurance that the work was not completely pointless.

People (especiall pirates) saying "we don't want to pay for that" basically say this - though implicitely - "why, if they don't show appreciation by giving me a few ccoins, when then should I make a game at all ?" If no-one's apreciating my work, why should I do it then, actually ? This is nihilism at its purest form. Extremely put.

 

[Gorath]

[…] Bitcomposer isn't changing the view, they're just changing the actual gameplay with this "reloaded" version. Why couldn't they just make this one TB and do whatever they they want in JA 3?

That's what I found so funny. Not so much that smaller companies are copying bigger ones.

You forgot about the browser game. There are 2 JA products, and knowing that German companies are the world market leaders in browser games I doubt that the PC game is the key project for them. The whole thing sounds to me like they're trying to create synergies to get the costs down. Asset sharing, etc.

 

[GothicGothicness]

Aha, that it of course, they are making jagged alliance online... and for multiplayer games it won't work with turn-based..... so they just want to use the same engine for both!

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

That explains quite a lot !

 

[skavenhorde]

You forgot about the browser game. There are 2 JA products, and knowing that German companies are the world market leaders in browser games I doubt that the PC game is the key project for them. The whole thing sounds to me like they're trying to create synergies to get the costs down. Asset sharing, etc.

Damn, that is it isn't it? Now it makes sense in a WTF kind of way. Oh well, I never really expected to play another Jagged Alliance game that wasn't some kind of mod. At least the community has made all kinds of resources for the existing JA 2 game.

I really wish that Sir-Tech hadn't gone belly up. They made some of the best games out there.

Thanks, Gorath.

Edit - I hope you don't mind, but I posted your response over at the JA2R forums. It made a lot more sense than what Bitcomposer was saying.

 

[Maylander]

Well, browser games actually tend to work out really well with TB combat.

 

[Gorath]

Damn, that is it isn't it? Now it makes sense in a WTF kind of way. Oh well, I never really expected to play another Jagged Alliance game that wasn't some kind of mod. At least the community has made all kinds of resources for the existing JA 2 game.

I really wish that Sir-Tech hadn't gone belly up. They made some of the best games out there.

Thanks, Gorath.

Edit - I hope you don't mind, but I posted your response over at the JA2R forums. It made a lot more sense than what Bitcomposer was saying.

I hope you sold it as your opinion and added you were speculating. Of course it doesn't have to be right just because it sounds logical.

 

[skavenhorde]

Na, gave you credit as a "forum member over at rpgwatch". I'm not really sure on the do's and dont's of cross forum posting . I'm just now starting to branch out a bit and post in other forums as well.

Although I highly doubt I'll be posting much more at Bitcomposer's site. I've now gone back to "I don't give a rat's behind" mode. It's interesting to talk about, but I no longer really care all that much. When Sir-Tech went belly up so did all of their IPs as far as I'm concerned.