Let's Play Eye of the Beholder (youtube)

[JemyM]

Thanks for posting. I've never played these games - looks fun.

I'm rather surprised at how obscure some of the puzzles seem to be - there is one part where you place a bunch of darts into some holes. Does the missing "flavor text" help out that much?

The Special Quests (like the dart-trap) is a bit different. They were meant to be really tough and obscure since they were a competition that was active when the game was new. Clues to them was given in the manual of the game. The clue for that particular one was "Ancient traps may be turned to your advantage". If you beat all 12 you get a code when finishing the game that you could send in to the developer and get a prize.

 

[JemyM]

Looks exactly like the type of game I was looking for to keep myself bussy while I'm on the train. How friendly is it towards players new to that type of rpg?

(I still know the AD&D rules from BG & BG2 btw)

By all means try it out. Just don't get scared off by EoB1 if you try it. The second game in the series is by many considered the best. I actually consider EoB1 something out of a "introduction to EoB2" as EoB2 is so much a greater game in every possible way. It's easier to grasp, it's more logic, the areas makes more sense, the story is integrated well and develop over time etc. I would even say that EoB2 is one of the better RPG games of the early 90'ies and one that still today is fun to play.

 

[JemyM]

Now uploading the playthrough of the second game. Amazingly it ended up only 26 parts, proving either that I am more familiar with it, or that it's a shorter game, or perhaps the combat is easier with imported characters.

Eye of the Beholder II: The Legend of Darkmoon

 

[Dasale]

There's no comparison the EoB2 gameplay is much more deep and diversified and the graphics better, didn't watch too much because it definitely made me add it in my list of RPG to try in priority.

The problem I'll most probably have will be the lack of Automap but I'll look at the AGA Amiga version as it seems it has one. My second problem will be that the game is most probably too much unforgiving but I'll try.

I wonder why you didn't used the AGA version? Are the controls better or something better in PC version?

EDIT: It's weird but it's only now I remember I have a GBA version of EoB1, too bad it's not the 2 but anyway I can't play the DS lite and too bad the DS XL doesn't have the GBA slot. So it's better it's not the 2 or my regret would have been to rude.

 

[JemyM]

There's no comparison the EoB2 gameplay is much more deep and diversified and the graphics better, didn't watch too much because it definitely made me add it in my list of RPG to try in priority.

The problem I'll most probably have will be the lack of Automap but I'll look at the AGA Amiga version as it seems it has one. My second problem will be that the game is most probably too much unforgiving but I'll try.

I wonder why you didn't used the AGA version? Are the controls better or something better in PC version?

EDIT: It's weird but it's only now I remember I have a GBA version of EoB1, too bad it's not the 2 but anyway I can't play the DS lite and too bad the DS XL doesn't have the GBA slot. So it's better it's not the 2 or my regret would have been to rude.

I found out about the AGA version when I had already finished the EoB1 playthrough and I didn't want to go through all that hassle again. I know that EoB1 PC/Amiga saves aren't interchangeable (I tried to load my PC save in the Amiga version to get the ending but it didn't work).

For EoB2 I didn't want to risk that my saves couldn't be imported in EoB3, the minimap wasn't a good enough excuse since I would never even use it. While I stumble around a bit in EoB1, I know the EoB2 maps really well. I once lead a team who were building a NWN mod on EoB2 and I put down a tremendous effort learning every tiny detail in those maps.

That said, I found DOSBox to generally be less of a hassle compared to WinUAE. I ran WinUAE with Ishar I-III and it gave me a bit of a sour taste. All three games had major problems which the PC version didn't have. Saving was always a hassle and in the end I couldn't even finish the third game.

If I was to do these playthroughs I wanted to do them on familiar ground, in the versions I played before and already had installed.

 

[JemyM]

I learned a lot about Eye of the Beholder III today that I didn't know before. EoB3 isn't developed by the makers of the first two games (Westwood) which shouldn't be news to anyone really. It's also a dreadfully slow game, which isn't news to most either. However, what I didn't know was that it used a licensed engine (AESOP/16) that was supposed to get an upgrade as a patch that was never finished.

One of the DOSBox developers managed to convince the original coder to release the source, then got to work. He managed to make Eye of the Beholder 3 run with the upgraded engine (AESOP/32).

I have been playing with the upgraded engine today and the speed is really great compared to the old one and lots of speed and sound issues that was inescapable in the original game is gone. You couldn't even play the original game without the sound turning itself off as soon as you moved the mouse around.

 

[DArtagnan]

I learned a lot about Eye of the Beholder III today that I didn't know before. EoB3 isn't developed by the makers of the first two games (Westwood) which shouldn't be news to anyone really. It's also a dreadfully slow game, which isn't news to most either. However, what I didn't know was that it used a licensed engine (AESOP/16) that was supposed to get an upgrade as a patch that was never finished.

One of the DOSBox developers managed to convince the original coder to release the source, then got to work. He managed to make Eye of the Beholder 3 run with the upgraded engine (AESOP/32).

I have been playing with the upgraded engine today and the speed is really great compared to the old one and lots of speed and sound issues that was inescapable in the original game is gone. You couldn't even play the original game without the sound turning itself off as soon as you moved the mouse around.

Interesting about the updated engine.

I didn't play EoB3 because it wasn't by Westwood and though I tried it out, it WAS painfully slow and just felt crappy by comparison. Used to be my absolute favorite genre after Dungeon Master created the revolution.

Interestingly enough, the exact same thing happened with Lands of Lore. Westwood (acquired by Virgin after SSI and EA some time later - if memory serves) developed the first two - but the third was by an entirely different team and was complete crap in comparison.

Lands of Lore 2 got a lot of flak, but I consider it to be one of the best games they ever did. That said, it wasn't as strong in the gameplay department as EoB/LoL - but it had an amazing story with tons of huge levels with excellent design.

Good old Westwood….

 

[JemyM]

I didn't play EoB3 because it wasn't by Westwood and though I tried it out, it WAS painfully slow and just felt crappy by comparison. Used to be my absolute favorite genre after Dungeon Master created the revolution.

In EoB3 you spend a lot of time in areas which seems to make no sense and doesn't really reveal to you why you are there. The story is somewhat missing from large sections of the game, even if you meet a lot of characters and there are some sidestories to be explored. Still, I feel it superior to EoB1 that in hintersight had very little in terms of story, and the dungeon didn't make much sense the way it was crafted. EoB2 is still on higher ground though.

Time will reveal if I am able to finish EoB3 with the patch.

Interestingly enough, the exact same thing happened with Lands of Lore. Westwood (acquired by Virgin after SSI and EA some time later - if memory serves) developed the first two - but the third was by an entirely different team and was complete crap in comparison.

Lands of Lore 2 got a lot of flak, but I consider it to be one of the best games they ever did. That said, it wasn't as strong in the gameplay department as EoB/LoL - but it had an amazing story with tons of huge levels with excellent design.

Good old Westwood….

Eventually I will have to play the LoL series. I didn't have a PC back then and never had the time to play LoL after that. The 1-player 3d stuff in LoL2 ticked me off a bit I confess.

I wish Westwood would get back into making RPG's.

 

[DArtagnan]

Eventually I will have to play the LoL series. I didn't have a PC back then and never had the time to play LoL after that. The 1-player 3d stuff in LoL2 ticked me off a bit I confess.

I wish Westwood would get back into making RPG's.

Overall, I think Lands of Lore is the best dungeon crawler Westwood did. EoB2 comes second, and then Lands of Lore 2.

However, they're not my favorite ones from back in the day.

That would be Black Crypt - with Captive a close second. But they're so old by now, that you really had to have been there. I'm guessing you were?

Realms of the Haunting - though much more of an adventure, is definitely one of the strongest contenders as well, with perhaps the very best puzzles of any dungeon crawler.

 

[Dasale]

@JemyM: Thanks for the precisions about the AGA version vs DOSBox.

@DArtagnan:
I played Land of Lore in its time but never finished it, it always been in my "to replay" list but never got the courage to get and install the stuff.

After to have seen the beginning of EoB2 I'm not sure anymore, I don't remember Land of Lore was so subtle. I wonder if there are similar movie playthrough of Land of Lore and Dungeon Master.

For me too they wasn't my favorite, well Land of Lore I mean. At same time, Ultima Underworld and Ultima VII captivate me much more, U7 is something else but Ultima Underworld is a direct successor of Dungeon Master. I discovered Dungeon Master only later and only a little bit through Dungeon Master 2, it was too late and too soon then. For the 3 other you quoted I don't know them, but I also never got an Amiga and they was probably more popular on this platform.

What I see of EoB2 through JemyM movies gave me an urge to try it because since I played a large part of Dungeon Master, my view on CRPG has changed.

About all those games, when I play all those great remakes on DS of classical JRPG, I feel sad that I'll never get a modernized but faithful remake of games like Dungeon Master and Ultima VII. I didn't try Ulyima VII with Exult but DOSBox and the sloppy animation discourage me quickly. If you setup so it's not sloppy then the game is too fast, rather poor programing from this point of view, it's incredible they didn't program an engine that use clock timing.

 

[JemyM]

And finally, Eye of the Beholder III: Assault on Myth Drannor is up. The last game ended up only 15 parts, even if I did everything in the game. I managed to recompile the game into AESOP/32 which really improved the gameplay. The original game is still a bit broken in DOSBox.

 

[dyze]

how do i start the aga version in winuae? i cant find any instructions anywhere.

edit: nm, got it working!

 

[JemyM]

how do i start the aga version in winuae? i cant find any instructions anywhere.

edit: nm, got it working!

If someone else wonders, one way to get it working is to make a harddrive, install Workbench 3.1, then you need to install WHDLoad. Once that's done you can run the game right from it's icon. There might be simpler pre-installed solutions though.

I personally made two folders into Amiga harddrives inside WinUAE, one for Workbench and the other for files. I have placed games like Eye of the Beholder AGA right in the root of the 2nd harddrive.

 

[JemyM]

I have had a look at Lands of Lore and have to say I am disappointed. There are many great improvements in storytelling and visuals, but the game seems extremely linear. Another issue is that the party mechanics feels oversimplified, only three recruitable characters without a choice of who to recruit and when, only three skills with characters ending up mostly the same.

 

[DArtagnan]

I have had a look at Lands of Lore and have to say I am disappointed. There are many great improvements in storytelling and visuals, but the game seems extremely linear. Another issue is that the party mechanics feels oversimplified, only three recruitable characters without a choice of who to recruit and when, only three skills with characters ending up mostly the same.

True, they moved away from AD&D and streamlined things.

But I think it's less linear than EoB2 - at least as I remember it. You actually have a few choices on what to do in what order - at least in LoL2.

But the level design and story is pretty strong.

I think you should give it another shot, but that's just me

 

[Parmenion]

Great videos - wish I could play as smooth as that - I remember dying quite a lot in EOB2 - will have to try some of your tactics. In fact I never got that far through EOB 2 - is it advisable to play EOB1 first and import characters or can you start EOB2 with a new party and get through it OK?

I have been watching the lets play lands of lore the throne of chaos vids on you tube - the narrator cracks me up. I can't remember it being that annoying (respawning monsters - not quite as bad as Dungeon Lords but bad enough) must have a play through again.

 

[JemyM]

But I think it's less linear than EoB2 - at least as I remember it. You actually have a few choices on what to do in what order - at least in LoL2.

EoB2 in particular is less linear than EoB1 and 3. You have the central hub you keep coming back to and you are instantly met with a path up and path down. Usually you make the decision whether to do Temple or Catacombs first.

Just note that I compared with LoL1, LoL2 is a different game.

 

[JemyM]

Great videos - wish I could play as smooth as that - I remember dying quite a lot in EOB2 - will have to try some of your tactics. In fact I never got that far through EOB 2 - is it advisable to play EOB1 first and import characters or can you start EOB2 with a new party and get through it OK?

This make the game a LOT easier. EoB1 doesn't hold back when it comes to awesome items, in fact, you only find one single +5 item in EoB2-3 TOGETHER, and that one you get right before the final level and it's at that point quite useless. In EoB1 you can find a +5 robe of protection, a +5 long sword, plenty of +5 darts… you even get a +5 dagger on the first level if you know what to do. The bad side is ofcourse that much of the challenge is gone if you use EoB1 characters and it's rare to find better items in EoB2/3 than the stuff you already got.

Another thing that helps is to know the AD&D mechanics. It helps to learn what spells and techniques are useful and not.

I have been watching the lets play lands of lore the throne of chaos vids on you tube - the narrator cracks me up. I can't remember it being that annoying (respawning monsters - not quite as bad as Dungeon Lords but bad enough) must have a play through again.

Kikoskios. That's the one I have been watching. He's hillarious… I sometimes find him more entertaining than watching the game itself.

I have been watching some playthroughs on youtube. I listened to one guy who I believe was german who played Ishar that sometimes made me laugh too, but not as funny as Kikoskios. I will probably watch his playthrough of LoL2 too. And if you want to see some real dedication, the girl who play through Pool of Radiance II is one dedicated fellow. But I think she gave up after 150 episodes. That's one long game…

 

[JemyM]

Been watching Kikoskias playthrough of Lands of Lore II. It really does move away from the earlier games... still, it seems kinda fun.

 

[Dasale]

If someone else wonders, one way to get it working is to make a harddrive, install Workbench 3.1, then you need to install WHDLoad. Once that's done you can run the game right from it's icon. There might be simpler pre-installed solutions though.

I personally made two folders into Amiga harddrives inside WinUAE, one for Workbench and the other for files. I have placed games like Eye of the Beholder AGA right in the root of the 2nd harddrive.

That seems so simple when you write it... at first step, WinUAE install, I get blocked, it requires a ROM. I suspect it's like those ROM files for Old Mac emulators but wonder where get any. The only clue I get is that I can buy some mysterious pack I don't care of and get a rom in it. Well…