Madoff made-off with billions...

[Corwin]

That's an interesting counter argument. I wonder just how much difference it would make though. There's still far too many people in jail.

 

[zakhal]

IIRC Finland many cases are solved through confess even in murder cases. We have light punishment though (somtimes too light even) so it makes people less resisting.

 

[Thrasher]

Most are drug offenders, and many are illegal immigrants in CA.

For the first group, just legalize the crap. It was Nixon's paranoia that started it all. It's time to end it. Why continue to justify his madness?

Illegal immigrants, that's a lot tougher....

 

[Corwin]

OK, then let's send them all to Finland!!

 

[zakhal]

OK, then let's send them all to Finland!!

We have quotas on immigrants and popular opinnion seems on reducing it. Also the weather is so bad that very few people want to live here. Its no coincidence that this land is one of the least populated in europe if not the world.

You can come here but you would simply freeze to death in forest eating pine needless or somthing. Thats unless you wouldnt off yourself first after been in endless rain and darkness (many months can go with zero sunlight) for good part of the year.

I think the penalty might be too big.

 

[Rithrandil]

Do you have good public transportation? If so, I'll move there if it's cold all the time!

 

[zakhal]

Do you have good public transportation? If so, I'll move there if it's cold all the time!

Depends on the town but lets say that the one I live in has it so good that I stopped using it like decade ago. Last time I waited for bus 45min it never arrived and I could have walked in that time. Now if I cant use bicycle or car I simply call taxi or walk. The southern town of helsinki has better system though but I havent lived that far "south" ever.

Also its not the cold but more like cold rain and darkness. If you can tolerate that continously like 7-8 months per year and remember to eat extra vitamins then you should be okay.

 

[Corwin]

Hmm....it's the middle of winter here and it's like 25-27 degrees C today with bright sunshine, so I think I'll pass!!

 

[hishadow]

What do you do if you on later reexcamination discover that a innocent man was killed?

OK, then let's send them all to Finland!!

There's this wonderfully distorted 60 minutes report on Finland ... land of depression. :lol:

 

[magerette]

I thought it was the right wing that was all about forcing morals on others. Well crap the bed, now I figure out that the lefties have stolen that from us, too.

After stealing all your ill-gotten gains for the downtrodden, we have to go for whatever's left.

Actually, I think righteous moral indignation, demonizing the opponent and drama queen grandstanding appear to be a characteristic of all fringe politics(and religion.) Pretty useless, imo no matter what's being advocated. Just puts people on the defensive and makes it impossible to find any common ground.

Of course, in some cases, there IS no common ground.

Why were executions public?

There was no TV or internet.

Why are they still public in some countries?

Uh, still no TV?

 

[Surlent]

This is probably the sole instance where I'll give the French some kudos--a guillotine in the town square is tough to beat. If we add (doncha love modern technology) some heaters to the blade, we can get it hot enough to cauterize as it cuts and do away with the mess. What more could you ask for in an execution? Crisp and clean and 100% effective. To keep the bleeding hearts happy, we could use solar or wind power to generate the electricity for the heaters (I'm all about compromise).

Hah, now that's a good one.

IIRC Finland many cases are solved through confess even in murder cases. We have light punishment though (somtimes too light even) so it makes people less resisting.

The court processes in Finland stagger on their feet until cases become too old to hold them valid. EU has complained a couple of times how painfully slow the court cases are in this country. And the penalties indeed are extremely light especially if the sentenced has no previous criminal background.

 

[zakhal]

The court processes in Finland stagger on their feet until cases become too old to hold them valid. EU has complained a couple of times how painfully slow the court cases are in this country. And the penalties indeed are extremely light especially if the sentenced has no previous criminal background.

The latest rape case police raped 15yo is good example. Took ten years to go through court and sentance was one year(?). Dont know what could possibly drag it so long.

 

[Surlent]

Jesus christ, the courts can't get anymore dysfunctional than that.

 

[magerette]

This one is a bit mind-boggling, also goes into some detail on the US sentencing system.
From the Times Online(UK)
Madoff Hires Help to Survive Hard Time

Bernard Madoff has hired a veteran prison consultant to help him to find the best possible jail in which to serve his 150-year sentence for Wall Street’s biggest fraud.
The draconian maximum sentence imposed by the judge means that Madoff, 71, will be assigned to a tougher category of prison than most white-collar criminals...

A first-time non-violent white-collar criminal convicted in a US federal court would normally qualify for incarceration at a minimum-security “prison camp” with easygoing rules and no perimeter fence. But the length of Mr Madoff’s jail term means that he has no hope at all of going to one of them.

A sentence above 30 years usually places an inmate in a high-security category, meaning that Madoff would be assigned to a prison housing violent offenders including murderers and rapists..

They're not doing much to pull on my heartstrings, especially this concept:

“He has been incarcerated under very difficult conditions in these past months. Anywhere he goes is likely to be better than where he is now, unless they throw him into the Supermax,” he said. “He will be able to get exercise. He will be able to do something that makes him productive. He may be able to tutor other inmates.”

Sorry if I sound barbaric, but I say SuperMax(23 hrs a day solitary confinement) for Mr. Madoff, for his own and society's best interests.

 

[Corwin]

You won't hear any arguments from me!!

 

[dteowner]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090707/ap_on_re_us/us_sc_killing_spree_44

Let's hear it for that feel-good approach to crime. Prison is for rehabilitation and once they've done their time, they're changed. We probably ought to investigate all the cops to make sure when they defended themselves that their gunshots were humane, because we wouldn't want this poor victim of a guy to suffer any pain.

Tell it to the families. Look those people in the eye and tell them that being "enlightened and humane and progressive" on crime works. What a load of insulting bull.

 

[magerette]

My question is, how did this guy ever qualify for parole? Apparently it just costs too much to keep people in jail:

"Every officer along the way did his job," he said. "But we have 37,000 prisoners committed to prison in North Carolina and when those prisons get full, our jails start backing up. I run a jail. I know they can't put everyone in jail. They have alternative programs to incarceration. But there are some that just need to be in jail — and this is one who just needed to be in jail."

 

[dteowner]

Non-violent offender with less than 10 year sentence for the crimes he got tagged on, so he'd be high on the "alternatives to prison" list when the jail runs out of beds. 3 strike law? This guy did a whole baseball game. At that point, it's safe to say "enlightened" ain't getting it done. No room at the inn, so sorry. Break out the guillotine.

 

[Thrasher]

We need to make room for serious criminals by getting rid of the people put in jail for silly reasons.

 

[dteowner]

Which one might define as, say, non-violent offender with less than 10 years sentence? Gotta be pretty careful how you set your criteria.